some basic m8 help

[boy_lah]

hi everyone,

Just bit the bullet and plonked for a used m8 and I'm struggling with some basics - looking to veterans advice.

1 - i took some pix with my vintage canon RF lens without UV/IR cut and the photos show very 'purple' instead of black and the overall tonning of the colour is somehow 'off'. How do i fix this? I prefer a solution using Lightroom 2 but happy to learn Capture One if that's the only/better choice. I read about this 'profile' for Capture One I could download and install? Is this still relavent with m8 firmware v2 and Capture One v4? Where can i find it/how do i install it?

2 - i shoot mainly colour on my m8 so do i definately need UV/IR cut filter? Or is there a good/accurate way to treat these funny issues post processing?

3 - If uv/ir cut is the only way will B+W do or must i go leica ones? there seems to be various comments about leica's being less strong than B+W?

4 - i assume since i shoot RAW only, 6bit encoding is not that helpful? ie. i understand any 6bit lens correction only applies to jpeg? So am I right to assume 6bit isonly useful to record which lens I used on the EXIF?

thanks in advance! 😛

 

[dcsang]

Hey there..

1 - UV/IR is your best bet
2 - yes, UV/IR
3 - B+W works just as well - I use both, can't tell the difference imho
4 - Encoding apparently helps with uber wides and "cyan shift" or is it "cyan drift" - I can never remember. I don't have any of my lenses (save for the 75 lux) encoded - I only notice issues on the CV 15mm Heliar and, I think, the ZM 21mm.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Artorius]

I have tried using the "uv/ir lens detection on" is not as accurate as using detection off with the UV/IR cut filters. Maybe there is less in camera processing, I really don't know. I do however know that I am getting better results. I haven't had to use corner fix since I turned lens detection off.
Any ideas?

 

[jaapv]

hi everyone,

Just bit the bullet and plonked for a used m8 and I'm struggling with some basics - looking to veterans advice.

1 - i took some pix with my vintage canon RF lens without UV/IR cut and the photos show very 'purple' instead of black and the overall tonning of the colour is somehow 'off'. How do i fix this? I prefer a solution using Lightroom 2 but happy to learn Capture One if that's the only/better choice. I read about this 'profile' for Capture One I could download and install? Is this still relavent with m8 firmware v2 and Capture One v4? Where can i find it/how do i install it?

2 - i shoot mainly colour on my m8 so do i definately need UV/IR cut filter? Or is there a good/accurate way to treat these funny issues post processing?

3 - If uv/ir cut is the only way will B+W do or must i go leica ones? there seems to be various comments about leica's being less strong than B+W?

4 - i assume since i shoot RAW only, 6bit encoding is not that helpful? ie. i understand any 6bit lens correction only applies to jpeg? So am I right to assume 6bit isonly useful to record which lens I used on the EXIF?

thanks in advance! 😛

1. buy IR filters
2. No -there is not
3. B&W is OK without, but you will see a difference without filters.Any brand filter is OK
4. Coding works on RAW level. You need coding for any lens of 35 mm and shorter.

 

[user237428934]

4. Coding works on RAW level. You need coding for any lens of 35 mm and shorter.

I don't have my 35mm lens coded. Works fine. Don't have problems with that.

 

[GrahamWelland]

I'd agree with the above posts but I would say that for wider lenses, i.e. 21mm and wider, there's some merit with going with the Leica filters vs B+W/Heliopan. For longer lenses I've never really seen a difference.

I choose to use coded lenses but for a couple my uncoded lenses I use the 'sharpie' technique. You may find the M-Coder useful for this purpose.

 

[jaapv]

I don't have my 35mm lens coded. Works fine. Don't have problems with that.

I'd more or less agree with that; it depends on the lens, the amount of IR in the light and the PP skills of the user. I have my Summicron 35 asph coded and I do see some slight cyan shift without the coding switched on in high-IR circumstances, I have my Nokton 35/1.2 uncoded and am perfectly happy with the results.

 

[jaapv]

I'd agree with the above posts but I would say that for wider lenses, i.e. 21mm and wider, there's some merit with going with the Leica filters vs B+W/Heliopan. For longer lenses I've never really seen a difference.

I choose to use coded lenses but for a couple my uncoded lenses I use the 'sharpie' technique. You may find the M-Coder useful for this purpose.

I feel the same way. Without any real basis in fact, I do use Leica filters for my 21 and 15. For longer lenses coding is only useful to get the focal length into exif.

Having said that, the Noctilux really benefits from coding because the optical vignetting gets corrected.

 

[boy_lah]

thanks everyone - really apprecaite the feedback.

so to summarise...
- get ir cut for 35 or wider lens. on 35mm or closer - benefit differs depending on lens.
- B&W pretty close to Leica's but for super wides 21mm or less - perhaps Leica better bet
- benefits of ir cut are: 1) black fabrics not turning purple; 2) cyan shift (on super wide lens) 3) vinyetting correction. And these all apply to RAW (not just jpeg)

But if ir cut is not critical on 35 or 50 lens then I'm sure confused why i get photos that seem to have the purple cast to it. And the level of cast depends on the lens. My 35 cron IV is better than my 50 Rigid. The rigid is particularly bad. I was shooting in the park with lots of leaves/colours though - which i hear maybe particularly bad for IR?

I just borrowed my friend's M-coder (sharpie thing) and have coded all my lens but i suspect until i get my ir cut, it's not going to help my problem?

Finally, i have some photos which i would like to 'rescue' from this funny purple cast. Any tips in LR2 or CaptureOne?

again, many thanks for everyone's help.

 

[jaapv]

thanks everyone - really apprecaite the feedback.

so to summarise...
- get ir cut for 35 or wider lens. on 35mm or closer - benefit differs depending on lens.
- B&W pretty close to Leica's but for super wides 21mm or less - perhaps Leica better bet
- benefits of ir cut are: 1) black fabrics not turning purple; 2) cyan shift (on super wide lens) 3) vinyetting correction. And these all apply to RAW (not just jpeg)

But if ir cut is not critical on 35 or 50 lens then I'm sure confused why i get photos that seem to have the purple cast to it. And the level of cast depends on the lens. My 35 cron IV is better than my 50 Rigid. The rigid is particularly bad. I was shooting in the park with lots of leaves/colours though - which i hear maybe particularly bad for IR?

I just borrowed my friend's M-coder (sharpie thing) and have coded all my lens but i suspect until i get my ir cut, it's not going to help my problem?

Finally, i have some photos which i would like to 'rescue' from this funny purple cast. Any tips in LR2 or CaptureOne?

again, many thanks for everyone's help.

Don't set your camera to IR filter if you don't have one on. The colours will be all over the place. The remarks about the focal length apply to coding, NOT to the use of filters.

Put filters on ALL your lenses

Code all wide-angle lenses and maybe your 35

*Then* set your camera to lensdetection IR/UV filter.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


You can correct IR contamination in Photoshop CS3 - but it is a lot of work.

You open your image in RAW
and first develop it in ACR for the general colour, ignoring the IR parts.
Export it as a smart object
Click right on the smart object in the layers palette and copy the smart object to a layer.
Open the layer in ACR through clicking on the thumbnail in the layers palette.
Develop the image for correct colours in the contaminated areas
Export
Create a black layer mask (alt-click on the icon in the layers palette)
set your foreground color to white
And paint in the correct colours using a soft brush.
For correction on your painting toggle the foreground colour to black.

Flatten and save.~


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Jamie Roberts, you can find him on Leica Users Forum, has created a profile for C1 to help with IR images. It helps a bit, but it is not perfect.

 

[boy_lah]

Don't set your camera to IR filter if you don't have one on. The colours will be all over the place. The remarks about the focal length apply to coding, NOT to the use of filters.

Ah...I bet that's the problem i'm having. Penny dropped. Will experiement.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

hi everyone,

Just bit the bullet and plonked for a used m8 and I'm struggling with some basics - looking to veterans advice.

1 - Is this still relavent with m8 firmware v2 and Capture One v4? Where can i find it/how do i install it?

No, it's not relevant, but you should still get the v2.0 firmware update. It's available at Leica's site.

2 - i shoot mainly colour on my m8 so do i definately need UV/IR cut filter? Or is there a good/accurate way to treat these funny issues post processing?

Yes, and yes. But you need to understand why you are doing the postprocessing changes first before applying them. I've seen some very horrible postprocessing trying to get around this issue which shows that they don't understand what they're trying to work with. Of course, the camera and not the user is to blame, in their view.

3 - If uv/ir cut is the only way will B+W do or must i go leica ones? there seems to be various comments about leica's being less strong than B+W?

It is not the only way, but it is the least painful way. Unfortunately, Canon LTM lenses use some pretty obsolete filter sizes, so you'll have to find step-up rings first (for example, 40mm-to-43mm); in some cases, adding some Teflon tape around the thread in a 39mm filter will allow you to snug it in a 40mm-filter lens.

4 - i assume since i shoot RAW only, 6bit encoding is not that helpful? ie. i understand any 6bit lens correction only applies to jpeg? So am I right to assume 6bit isonly useful to record which lens I used on the EXIF?

6-bit encoding has nothing to do with shooting RAW. It's applicable for two things: corner fall-off correction and EXIF focal-length tagging.

 

[jaapv]

It is not the only way, but it is the least painful way. Unfortunately, Canon LTM lenses use some pretty obsolete filter sizes, so you'll have to find step-up rings first (for example, 40mm-to-43mm); in some cases, adding some Teflon tape around the thread in a 39mm filter will allow you to snug it in a 40mm-filter lens.

Fortunately, Gabriel, you are 100% wrong in this. B&W will supply their filters in just about any size you can think of 🙂

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Fortunately, Gabriel, you are 100% wrong in this. B&W will supply their filters in just about any size you can think of 🙂

Perhaps on the other side of the pond, but it's virtually impossible on this side to find many UV/IR filter sizes.

I once ordered two Series VII, a 48mm filter and two 40.5mm filters. They screwed up my order royally after waiting about a month for them to process the payment.

After many years, I've learned that if it's not B&H Photo, or somebody who takes PayPal, it's virtually unobtainable.

I did find a few 40.5 mm filters. But they gave me silver instead of black. Of course, it was Adorama. I had a moment of #@!-ness, but that sealed my opinion of Adorama.

 

[willie_901]

"so to summarise...
befits of ir cut are: 1) black fabrics not turning purple; 2) cyan shift (on super wide lens) 3) vinyetting correction. And these all apply to RAW (not just jpeg)
"

If you look at photos taken in sunlight with IR film you can understand how the problem is not limited to magenta casts in fabrics that reflect IR energy.

Actually all colors are affected by photons with IR frequencies. When IR energy is present there is no way to know the real, but unknown, visible-light photon count for recorded by a given sensor site or well. This is explains the absence of a general, universal post-processing solution to IR contamination. IR contamination may be most apparent in the low-energy region of the visible-light spectrum, but it affects all visible light frequencies to some degree. The M8 sensor has issues greens as well when IR energy is present. This fact is shown graphically in a review published on the Luminous Landscape site.

Placing the IR filter in front of the lens has many advantages (and at least one disadvantage). These advantages should have been used as an effective marketing tool. It is a pity Leica didn't make this situation clear from the beginning.

 

[boy_lah]

Any suggestions where to pic up some B+W in Europe specifically UK? Good price + good range? Sounds like i'll need a few. 39mm, 43mm + 48mm for my Canon 50/1.4.

 

[boy_lah]

"Actually all colors are affected by photons with IR frequencies."

I say my photos without IR cut had magneta cast but it's actually all over the place not just magneta which this makes more sense.

Placing the IR filter in front of the lens has many advantages (and at least one disadvantage). These advantages should have been used as an effective marketing tool. It is a pity Leica didn't make this situation clear from the beginning.

What is the disadvantage?

 

[jaapv]

Any suggestions where to pic up some B+W in Europe specifically UK? Good price + good range? Sounds like i'll need a few. 39mm, 43mm + 48mm for my Canon 50/1.4.

www.foto-huppert.de

 

[jaapv]

Perhaps on the other side of the pond, but it's virtually impossible on this side to find many UV/IR filter sizes.

I once ordered two Series VII, a 48mm filter and two 40.5mm filters. They screwed up my order royally after waiting about a month for them to process the payment.

After many years, I've learned that if it's not B&H Photo, or somebody who takes PayPal, it's virtually unobtainable.

I did find a few 40.5 mm filters. But they gave me silver instead of black. Of course, it was Adorama. I had a moment of #@!-ness, but that sealed my opinion of Adorama.

Amazing!`exactly the same order I placed with Michael Huppert. I got them in three weeks

 

[baycrest]

www.foto-huppert.de[filters. Go...ust click the link beside your post. Best Rob