back alley
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i think i'm gonna ban any discussion that includes the names, leica, zeiss, cosina.
this whole outsourcing, buying the name crap is getting old.
it seems everyday we start another thread or add to a post what we don't like.
maybe let's try to have a little respect for each other and how we speak to each other.
and no gabriel, this is not directed solely at you, honest.
and if we continue to add insulting commentary about leica just because it's a friggin' leica i'll buy the next poster a membership at p.net so you can fit right in with the other trolls that plauge that place.
this whole outsourcing, buying the name crap is getting old.
it seems everyday we start another thread or add to a post what we don't like.
maybe let's try to have a little respect for each other and how we speak to each other.
and no gabriel, this is not directed solely at you, honest.
and if we continue to add insulting commentary about leica just because it's a friggin' leica i'll buy the next poster a membership at p.net so you can fit right in with the other trolls that plauge that place.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
I see. Good night everybody.back alley said:
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
gustav[] pEña said:
It is what Leica marketing dept. is saying in personal conversations.I was told at one remove. Also the Januari issue of LFI, the official Leica magazine, has a very interesting article on these issues. It further states that Leica "after a spectecular first half year" which "has been consolidated in the last few months" "in its totality will live on".Furthermore they clearly state that they will leave the building of entry-level camera bodies to other companies. So no cheap Leica's I fear.Most of their profits are going to digital R&D, but they are committed to keep building film bodies. There is no plan to restrict film bodies to the a-la-carte line, but the digital M will be available both in standard and a-la-carte at a later time. All production will remain in Germany and Portugal. Product cycles will remain long in comparison to other manufacturers. There is a hint that there will be an integrated digital R next to the DMR in the not too far future.
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jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
gabrielma said:
Don't know anybody with those initials
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
hth said:
Why should they? For that price you can buy a RD-1.They don't want to build a RD-1 they want to build a digital M. The M7 is more expensive than the Bessa as well, with reason....
Ben Z said:
True for many of us. You don't have to buy new when the used stuff is sooo good.
SolaresLarrave said:
Francisco, if they cut their price by 50% many lenses will still be selling for well over $1000.
bobofish
Two-fisted Atom Smasher
Backalley,
I wonder if that comment was aimed at me?
I certainly didn't mean anything malicious by the outsourcing comment. Outsourcing bothers me as much as anybody, but it just seems a general trend. I've been wondering for the longest time why companies can't just find more efficient ways of producing things, rather than outsourcing, or laying off thousands of workers like Ford did today.
If Leica will indeed be producing their own gear, and at lower cost, then maybe they have gotten the point, and have found more efficient ways of doing things. One can hope.
I wonder if that comment was aimed at me?
I certainly didn't mean anything malicious by the outsourcing comment. Outsourcing bothers me as much as anybody, but it just seems a general trend. I've been wondering for the longest time why companies can't just find more efficient ways of producing things, rather than outsourcing, or laying off thousands of workers like Ford did today.
If Leica will indeed be producing their own gear, and at lower cost, then maybe they have gotten the point, and have found more efficient ways of doing things. One can hope.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Leica has stated very clearly that they will NOT move production away from Germany and Portugal (which is surprising, as they are close to the Czech border, with its cheap and highly skilled labor force) for reasons of quality control and efficiency. They referred to Canon moving their production of high-end camera's back to Japan for exactly those reasons.
In the lens field Leica is world leader in blankpressing aspherical lens elements, which is one of the reasons they lead the field in wide-angle. This process is obviously far less expensive and far less labour-intensive than grinding, so they may well have found a way of producing in Germany at competetive cost.
In the lens field Leica is world leader in blankpressing aspherical lens elements, which is one of the reasons they lead the field in wide-angle. This process is obviously far less expensive and far less labour-intensive than grinding, so they may well have found a way of producing in Germany at competetive cost.
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bobofish said:
Bob, I am sure it was not aimed at you or anyone. Too often our threads degenerate into an "L" is better than "Z" is better than "C" pissing match. I think Joe is just trying to keep that from happening again. If we can stay on topic and talk about Leica production without getting nasty about comparing it to any other company or thing, or each other, we will be fine. I mean comparisons are good, but we have to respect other's opinions and just not be nasty.
peter_n
Veteran
Thank you Joe.back alley said:
Palaeoboy
Joel Matherson
In the 70's Leica showed that they could make cheaper lenses that were as good as other lenses in the M line. The CL lenses, of which the 40mm still can hold its own today. There are ways of reducing costs without outsourcing (The CL lenses were made in Wetzar even when they had Canada or even Minolta they could have outsourced too) One is to do what Zeiss have done, make the best lenses you can without resorting to expensive ASPH designs. Make them a bit slower. Leica seem to enjoy trying to make the fastest in every lens but most users dont need those speeds. This is how Voigtlander got a foothold. The only 28 they have now is f2. Conventional designs and not superfast would help their range. Look at the silly prices paid for pre-ASPH 35 summicrons, they fetch the same price as ASPH versions on the secondhand market. Reintroduce lenses like that with more modern coatings and glass tweeks priced to compete with the new ZM biogon and im sure they would sell. Make them in Portugal if you have to. A compact and conventional 21mm would sell as well especially if you have a digital crop factor to contend with.
Graybeard
Longtime IIIf User
bobofish said:
I believe that Leica has been ousourcing zoom lenses for the Leica reflexes for some time now.
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
Yep! Many of the Leica R lenses are made by Konica-Minolta. I read it in Photo.net and in a book by an English chemist... Dennis something, who writes extensively about Leica stuff.
Needless to say, after the CL experiment, I wasn't surprised.
In any event, let's hover and see what kind of glass Leica can produce and price below $1000.
Needless to say, after the CL experiment, I wasn't surprised.
In any event, let's hover and see what kind of glass Leica can produce and price below $1000.
jlw
Rangefinder camera pedant
I don't know him either, but he must be VERY experienced, because I've got a bunch of Canon RF stuff with his initials engraved on it!
(Inside joke for Canon people...)