Some thoughts about the RFF book

[rbiemer]

This is not about the tech aspects of the book--I got my copy Monday and am very happy with that part of it.
And I am blown away at the quality of the photographs.

I have said (here and in "real life") that my photography is only to please me; it's a way of escaping from my work a day stress and responsibilities. I have given framed prints to a few pople over the years but never hung a show or tried to sell my work.

So last fall, some of the fine people here start organizing a second book. I want to play and they let me.
I must admit the reactions I got from showing the book around are(mostly) very gratifying.

Some things have occurred to me:
>I'm not really as dis-interested in other people's opinions about my "work" as I staunchly maintained. I will need to ponder on this some more.
>Being published turns out to be much more of a thrill than I thought it would. Certainly the company I'm with in the book is a big part of that but there is something else; My step-mom has written several text books and has a copy of them on one of the book-shelves at the house. Now I get to have something there also.
>Now I am thinking to do a book of my own--which started out as an interesting technical exercise. I need to learn some new skills--a good thing--and hone some old ones--probably a better thing. But the ego stoking thing is making the choice of what photos to include or exclude rather harder than I thought it should be. If/when I get a book together, most of my family will buy one but now I wonder about whether some mythical stranger will pay actual money to see some of my photos. I guess I need to ignore that aspect as much as I can.
>Can I keep my point of view and eliminate my ego? Should I even try? Any body reccommend a zen master to me?
Learning about myself through photography, who'd a thunk it. 🙄
Rob

 

[back alley]

find a good editor.

my second wife was a fabulous editor and i did some of my best work when she was helping me out.
she could pick a frame from a contact sheet and i would print it and it just worked out much better than when i picked my own.

 

[RML]

Rob, just do it. You'll soon found out whether your ego gets in the way. Let your texts be read by others and ask them for honest opinions. Wives and true friends should be good that, and your enemies. 🙂

In the past Easter weekend I've finally finished 3(!) photo books after figuring Lulu out properly. I'm now waiting for a copy of each before I make them freely available. I found it a lot of work but also that it puts me back in contact with my photohraphy, makes me think about what I want to shoot and how, and made me realise that I can't just shoot for the sake of burning film. I need at least some sort of purpose. It gave me a further boost to pick up and continu my on-going Mongolia photo projects.

Keep heart!

 

[ClaremontPhoto]

Do it for you. And family and friends. Forget selling. I've been there with prints in exhibitions, and priced my work reasonably but people haven't paid purchased because "it's only a photograph", "they only cost a few Euro so why do we have to pay that much?".

Also perhaps if you use Apple iPhoto look into their printing and binding service.

 

[RML]

Jon, you should have priced them stellar. 🙂 "They're a few thousand Euro so they must be good!" 😛

 

[rbiemer]

I should have titled this thread "...thoughts because of the RFF book."
I've got about 18 photos towards a book of my own, have registered a title with Lulu, and am learning some software. Now am playing with layout choices and so far, I think I'll end up with the same size as the RFF book. Briefly toyed with 7x7 square but 5x7 photos didn't work so well at that size.

But something else interesting has happened; showed the book to a friend of mine and he asked me if I would be willing to make a large print of one of the photos so he could display it "in a public place. For a price." He owns the local book store here. The short answer is yes. I need to sit with him and get some more specifics.
If he just wants it to hang in the store, I'm willing to let him have a print with minimal matting/framing for little more than cost. If, however, he wants to be able to sell it--should someone want it--I need to have a rather different price, I think?

Or should I just say "Yes. The price is X$" and let him do what he will after?

I am out of my depth here. What do you folks do about pricing your work?

Rob

 

[Benjamin Marks]

Gallery spaces often chage a hefty percentage 30-50% for sales. If this guy is a friend, I'd preempt with a reasonable offer (e.g. 10% commission on sales -- presumably he relies on the sale of books to pay the light bill). There has been some interesting stuff in Lenswork recently on pricing of photos and the photography market in general from Brooks Jensen. You might check it out.

I recently called up a gallery representing a wildlife photographer that was featured in Lenswork. I want to buy a photo of the elephants, I said. The elephants were "sold out" (that is, a limited edition that was all gone). Could they interest me in a $7,500 photo of a cheetah? I pointed out that the photos were very beautiful and no doubt would have mass appeal. At $250 a pop, they would sell scads. Everyone would make a lot of money. Not surprisingly the gallery rep found my bargaining unpursuasive, preferring to rely on scarcity to make his profit. Ah well. I know, they've got a lot of costs to cover . . .

Congrats on the display. Any time the public sees your work, it's a plus. Good luck on sales.

Ben

 

[RML]

I recently asked for a print and got a short price list. Inkjet/deskjet $20. RC $30. Fiber $100. All 8x10 sized. Personally, dunno about these prices but they sound about right for commercial purposes. Maybe you can set a minimum price level, let your friend sell them for whatever he can above that level, keep the level + 10% of everything above it. The rest for your friend.

When you add matting and framing things will be much more expensive (materials, skills and time) so you'll have to up the prices accordingly.

 

[jan normandale]

Rob, check out some prices for original works at photogalleries, and online. Go to some exhibitions this summer in the Catskills. I'm sure there will be people showing their work in restaurants and book stores. Check pricing, size, framing, print quality. This should help set your prices. Additionally if you limit the number of images you are prepared to print from a neg you should be able to assure purchasers there will be some value to their purchase.

Good luck with this.

BTW I love your new avatar. He was my most favourite of them all. " Put the chicken in the pot"

 

[Peter]

Hi Rob,

Always good to see another RFF member publishing and selling his/her work! All the best in your photography endeavour and from my own humble experience, the more I tried to shoot a good photo the worse it turned out! Try not to let ego blind you and see in a detached manner. See without actually seeing actually. I am only beginning to understand what is Cartier-Bresson trying to do with his photography. It is a form of meditation in motion, a journey to discover your true self while in the process of getting that 'perfect' shot.

Regards,
Peter

 

[Pherdinand]

>I'm not really as dis-interested in other people's opinions about my "work" as I staunchly maintained. I will need to ponder on this some more.

I wonder whether this is due to the POSITIVE reaction you received. 😀

By the way i like your new avatar.

 

[rbiemer]

I wonder whether this is due to the POSITIVE reaction you received. 😀

By the way i like your new avatar.

Oh, absolutely! The reactions have been interesting. Something like half are "I'm happy that you're happy" from my friends and co-workers. Some folks have said some version of, "Oh, so this is why you carry that thing around. Cool!"
And two or three have spent some time looking at all of the book. Them I gave the link to Lulu.
No one's actually flinched. Yet. 😀
The worst reaction actually came from one of my brothers--he's been writing pretty good poetry for a long time and hasn't had any luck geting published--so his reaction was pretty tepid.
Rob
The avatar: one of my heros. I've been trying to add a camera around his neck but haven't got a decent result yet.

 

[RayPA]

...
The worst reaction actually came from one of my brothers--he's been writing pretty good poetry for a long time and hasn't had any luck geting published--so his reaction was pretty tepid.
Rob
...

Suggest to your brother that he create a book of his poetry through Lulu, or maybe the both of you "do" a book together. He'll pep-up! 😉

🙂

 

[RML]

Suggest to your brother that he create a book of his poetry through Lulu, or maybe the both of you "do" a book together. He'll pep-up! 😉

🙂

That's exactly the idea I was thinking of! Rob, you just have to do such a book. 🙂

 

[dreilly]

Ditto the last suggestion. Words and images by brothers.

And nobody should expect any success with poetry. Even if it sells, you make nothing. So might as well give it away!

 

[Benjamin Marks]

I'm not so sure about the scarcity thing for unknown photogs. It has the sound of market logic to it, but I think the idea falls apart if you look at it. Just so you don't think it's about your photography, let me couch this in terms of mine. The likelihood of my selling even 100 originals of any negative is quite small. So if I promise to "limit" the edition (an idea, BTW, that comes from lithography and other plate-to-print processes where the "original" plate or stone etching actually degrades every time you print from it), all I am really doing is limiting the amount of $$ that I can make from that image. Trust me, Ansel Adams sold as many Moonrises as he could print. And the same goes for Weston and his peppers. On the off-chance that I become the next Ansel or that any image of mine becomes as iconic as Deoiseneau's kissing couple I will have limited my ability to reap the rewards of my success. My advice: Print as many as you can sell and, with a wink, ask those who want you to limit your editions if they will pay you a percentage of their re-sale when they've benefited from the scarcity. And trust me: all of our images are going to be pretty scarce . . . just give it time.

 

[wclavey]

I like the idea of words and images together by brothers. My son and I are developing a collection of father & son photos - - my negatives or slides, his printing. It is fun. We are aiming for a collection of 75 or so images. We probably have about 10-12 right now. We want to see if we can get a magazine interested in a reader submission article or something like that - - maybe take it further. But if nothing else, we will have this cool portfolio.