Some very fine pictures

[lushd]

Although somewhat propagandistic this is a fine collection of WWII pictures:

http://www.russianembassy.org.za/special/gallery.html

 

[dll927]

Is it any more "propogandistic" than American news media publishing pictures of happenings in the Middle East? There are always ways to get your message across. It's all in the choosing just what to publish.

 

[Laurence]

Truly excellent images...I am glad you put them out there.

 

[micromoogman]

Fantastic pictures! The problem for us average shooters is that we lack an interesting and natural subject for our photography. We almost force ourselves to find new themes to bring back the inspiration. I almost only taking pics on my travels with new fresh input. This is not meaning we need a war to finally take great pics but maybe a small riot...or something else worth aiming our petted cams on.

 

[Bryce]

Agreed, great photos. Agreed, propagandistic, but no more than the evening news in the present. Great post!

 

[tedwhite]

I was mesmerized by these photographs. Thank you.

Ted

 

[DougK]

Great photos, thanks for the link.

 

[VinceC]

That's a bad link to the famous raising of the Red Army victory banner over the Reichstag in Berlin, which is a classic photo.

About a decade ago, when I was working in Germany, a colleague of mine interviewed Yevgeny Khaldei, the Soviet photographer who took that and several other landmark war images. We went together to a Frankfurt museum where he was exhibiting his work, and Khaldei explained that he was inspired by the Raising of the Flag at Iwo Jima photo, so he spent an entire day driving around Berlin with an enormous flag, getting soldiers to hoist it. The scene at the Reichstag worked best. A setup, yes, but it certainly captures the extremely conflicted emotions of the moment.

 

[VinceC]

>>Is it any more "propogandistic" than American news media publishing pictures of happenings in the Middle East?<<

Unlike in the 1940s, we have access 24 hours a day to global images from many viewpoints, on the Internet and elsewhere.

 

[lushd]

Is it any more "propogandistic" than American news media publishing pictures of happenings in the Middle East? There are always ways to get your message across. It's all in the choosing just what to publish.

No indeed not - but obviously there's an idealistic message being portrayed about the Soviet way of life. There are lots of historically important stories (the Stalin purges, famines, prison camps and so on) in the Soviet era that are missing. A collection put out by any government would be equally partial, I think. And they are fantastic pictures that have given me a lot of pleasure.

Thanks to all for sharing my enjoyment of them.

 

[Nando]

I liked seeing the photos of the female fighters. That's certainly something that you don't see very often and female soldiers didn't exist in the western forces at that time.

 

[johne]

Nando:
One of the most successful snipers in WWII was a Russian woman!
Johne

 

[raftman]

That's a bad link to the famous raising of the Red Army victory banner over the Reichstag in Berlin, which is a classic photo.

About a decade ago, when I was working in Germany, a colleague of mine interviewed Yevgeny Khaldei, the Soviet photographer who took that and several other landmark war images. We went together to a Frankfurt museum where he was exhibiting his work, and Khaldei explained that he was inspired by the Raising of the Flag at Iwo Jima photo, so he spent an entire day driving around Berlin with an enormous flag, getting soldiers to hoist it. The scene at the Reichstag worked best. A setup, yes, but it certainly captures the extremely conflicted emotions of the moment.

It's also interesting to note that the famous Iwo Jima image is also something of a set-up. The flag had been placed there before but needed to be replaced, so the film and all of it is actually of them replacing it.

 

[GeorgesGiralt]

Hi !
Khaldei also told that when it's picture was seen by officials, he was asked to remove the extra watches the soldiers where wearing, as Russian soldiers were not supposed to be larcening the dead corpses... I remember having seen a film about Khaldei where it explained that this picture was one of the most manipulated one he made !

 

[raftman]

I think the smoke and dust rising in the background is also changed for dramatic effect.

 

[IGMeanwell]

I agree that I love the images of the women involved in the war ... of course a big reason million of Russians died during the war ... they would let anyone and everyone take a gun into battle

Their women tended to be incredibly skilled warriors (as mentioned before the wars most deadly sniper was a ukranian woman)

 

[Jocko]

I agree that I love the images of the women involved in the war ... of course a big reason million of Russians died during the war ... they would let anyone and everyone take a gun into battle

Their women tended to be incredibly skilled warriors (as mentioned before the wars most deadly sniper was a ukranian woman)

This shows the danger of old photographs! Of the 800,000 women who served with the armed forces of the USSR during world war two, the overwhelming majority - 98% at the very least - served in essential, non-combatant (and often extremely dangerous) roles. The sprinking of women-only combat units were a conscious imitation of Czarist practice (like the wartime uniform regulations, reconcilliation with the Orthodox church and the Soviet nation anthem). They were essentially part of a propaganda package, although this is not in any way to denigrate the courage of those who served within them.

In general, according to Professor Janet Howarth, the leading historian of the subject, Soviet women soldiers were rarely sent into combat and "only in desperate response to loses". It was certainly not normal military practice, outside the few women's units. However, women soldiers made for excellent propaganda photographs. It should also be remembered that many of the leading Soviet snipers were completely fictitious or hyped beyond all reason (like the Stakhanovite heroes of the industrial front).

At no point during the war did women constitute more than 8% of the Soviet armed forces. In fact, uniquely amongst the fighting powers, Great Britain mobilised women to at least the same extent as in the USSR: more than 10% of British soldiers were women.

Perhaps the real role of women in the Soviet armed forces is best reflected by the fact in the postwar years they were instantly dismissed, never to return. In the 1980s the British army remained almost 10% female. The Soviet army by contrast was 0.02%.

Cheers, Ian

 

[VinceC]

>>Great Britain mobilised women to at least the same extent as in the USSR: more than 10% of British soldiers were women.<<

I once interviewed a woman who had been part of the Kindertransport, then became a British soldier. She had been a German-Jewish teenager when a humanitarian group found her a British family to live with shortly after the Reichskristallnacht. Her parents remained behind in Germany (unable to emigrate) and perished. The woman I interviewed said she joined the British armed forces as soon as she turned 18 -- probably about 1943 -- and, like a great many military women, was assigned duties as a driver. She was intensely proud of having done her part to fight the Germans.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Thanks, Vince, for that insight. Thanks all for the thread, I learned a few things I didn't know, today.

 

[Harlee]

I just returned from Kiev [been there many times] and had opportunity to visit the treffic war museum beneath the hught "Rodina" statue once more. While some folks think these may be propagandist pictures, in actuality I look at these pictures as a historical account of a nation in its desperate struggle again overwhelming odds to emerge victorious. While I'm not endorsing their political viewpoint, we must remember that the people shown in these photographs weren't making a political statement, they were fighting for their homeland and unfortunately, for the most part, never had opportunity to experience any other way of life. A great pictorial essay of the men and women of the FSU who gave their all, unfortunately not for freedom, but to return to a way of life which even today according to many I've talked to, was better than it is today.