Sonnar or Nokton

[fleetwoodjazz]

I'd like to take close portrait with 50mm lens and can not afford a Noctilux right now. Which one you prefer, and why? Please show examples if possible.

Thanks.
P/S: I am using a Zeiss Ikon and M6 so focusing should not be a problem with fast lens.

 

[Roger Hicks]

First question: why 50?

Most people agree that a longer lens gives better perspective, and you'll get shallower depth of field for free. I'd recommend either an 85/2 or 135/whatever it is FSU bottle. The 135 is uncommonly sharp.

For examples of different lenses, you might care to take a look at http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps portrait lens light.html

Cheers,

R.

 

[Disaster_Area]

There was a HUGE multipage thread about this a while ago... you shouldn't have any problems finding it... but the jist of it was MOST people couldn't tell the difference between the Sonnar and the Nokton and even the ones that could agree that for the price difference the Nokton is the clear winner. Both are tack sharp and the difference in bokeh is subjective... sometimes one was better, sometimes the other depending on the background.

 

[chris00nj]

There was a HUGE multipage thread about this a while ago... you shouldn't have any problems finding it... but the jist of it was MOST people couldn't tell the difference between the Sonnar and the Nokton and even the ones that could agree that for the price difference the Nokton is the clear winner. Both are tack sharp and the difference in bokeh is subjective... sometimes one was better, sometimes the other depending on the background.

I think that thread was between the Nokton 50/1.5 not the 50/1.1.

 

[samoksner]

I would go with the nokton, even though i like the rendition of the sonnar a bit better for 2 reasons: 1, that extra stop of light and 2, the sonnar suffers from focus shift, which I've never been able to tame, i want my lens to be in focus at f1.5 and f2.8 thank you very much....

That nokton 1.1 (or even the nokton 1.5) are such good lenses, I've never apologized for using them, i find that they are exceptional pieces of glass, regardless of price.

Would i take a noctilux as my only 50mm lens? No, but i would take a nokton 1.1. Would i trade my 35mm f1.2 for a 35mm summilux ASPH... probably not, i love how my nokton draws while i find the 'lux a bit clinical.

Don't be dismayed by the appealing prices, CV makes high quality products that, while may not have the glamor of Zeiss or Leica, are in fact tools that are in fact more capable in certain ways for a lot less money.

Shots from the Nokton 1.1:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82669
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76156

Test showing the pretty drastic focus shift of the sonnar (you can get the lens optimized for f2.8 or f1.5, but not both):
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51742&highlight=sonnar+focus+shift

 

[Sonnar Brian]

You want a close portrait, neither lens will focus closer than 3ft.

As Roger stated, an 85 or 90 is a traditional portrait lens, and the magnification makes up for the close-focus of 4ft~5ft.

You might ask your self what qualities do you want for a portrait, ie the rendering of the lens. Portrait lenses on the soft side are more flattering to the subject.

My "newest" favorite portrait lens is a 1956 KMZ J-3, modified to get a little closer.

The Nikkor 5cm F1.4 and 5cm F2 Rigid lenses are Sonnar formula, in Leica Thread Mount, and can be modified for close-focus down to 0.7m. And all of the lenses mentioned are a fraction of the cost of the new ones mentioned. The J-3 was an Ebay steal at $50, but required work.

 

[fleetwoodjazz]

To cut a long story short, my ZI and Sonnar was stolen a week ago...so I end up having got to buy a 50mm anyway. I have been very pleased with my Sonnar and at first was not too impressed by the Nokton. Anyway, I think that was rather quick assessment and the Nokton looks like a very good lens to consider.

I prefer 50mm more than 85mm and longer because at close distance (about 1.5m), my portrait always includes a bit of the environment which I think the place for bokeh. With longer lens I have had SLR for that but not quite keen since most of the time I get pictures which are filled by the face or the face with body...not quite what I like hence, a 50mm is preferred.

 

[Roger Hicks]

To cut a long story short, my ZI and Sonnar was stolen a week ago...so I end up having got to buy a 50mm anyway. I have been very pleased with my Sonnar and at first was not too impressed by the Nokton. Anyway, I think that was rather quick assessment and the Nokton looks like a very good lens to consider.

I prefer 50mm more than 85mm and longer because at close distance (about 1.5m), my portrait always includes a bit of the environment which I think the place for bokeh. With longer lens I have had SLR for that but not quite keen since most of the time I get pictures which are filled by the face or the face with body...not quite what I like hence, a 50mm is preferred.

Fair enough. In that case: easy. Sonnar. At least for me.

Commiserations on the theft.

Cheers,

R.

 

[venchka]

85 Sonnar formula from several sources including Nikkor & Canon and back up. Alternative: Leitz 90/2.8 Elamrit from the 60s. Alternative: Leitz 50/2.0 DR Summicron. A very special lens with a look all it's own & rangefinder coupled focus to 0.5m or less. The 50/1.4 Nikkor falls into the same group with the DR Summicron for having a look that no other lens can duplicate.

We are trying to save you a ton of money. The 2 Nikkors (50 & 85) should easily be less than one of the lenses you mention. Same for the two Leitz lenses if you shop carefully. If you hate them, there will be a line to buy your lenses.

 

[mfogiel]

The Nokton wide open does not have much resolution, so with a high speed film the result is not very satisfactory

I prefer C Sonnar for portraiture, although it is normally my preference to shoot it at f2.8-4.0, wide open, the dof is always problematic - this is a shot illustrating the famous focus shift at f1.5, anyway I like the result much more than from the Nokton

 

[Richard G]

It is the front focus that is evident (temple hair and left shoulder are sharp.)

 

[Fujitsu]

The biggest plus of the Sonnar is the option to close focus at about 0.7m if I remember correctly. Otherwise I find the Nokton 50/1.5 to be an excellent lens.

As to the 50/1.1, I never liked it when I used it. Bulky and kind of "hollow" at the same time, cheap finish compared to earlier CV lenses and not any kind of unique signature. I dont even like the bokeh of that thing. And Cosina seems to have dropped the Aspherics completely now to cut production cost...

 

[GoneSavage]

The biggest plus of the Sonnar is the option to close focus at about 0.7m if I remember correctly

Unfortunately, the minimum focus is 0.9 meters; probably the only thing from preventing if from being my favourite!

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

Personally, I quite like the Nokton 1.1...though my favorite lens is a CZ Sonnar 1.5 in Contax mount, adapted with an Amedeo adapter--total cost around $400. Perhaps that's the way you could go. Here are about a zillion photos from it:

http://www.flickr.com/search/?ss=2&w=21669250@N02&q=sonnar+1.5&m=text

I'm getting tons of use out of the Nokton as an adapted m4/3 lens, but generally keep the old Sonnar on my M7.

 

[Jay Decker]

Either is a great choice! I choose the Sonnar 50/1.5 for a 50mm lens. But, I choose the Nokton 35/1.2 for a 35mm lens, and there were several great lenses in that category that I would have been happy with also...

 

[Krosya]

I'd consider a Nikkor 50/1.4. Great lens that can be made to focus to 0.7m or even closer. Small, well built and draws a beautiful picture - great for portraits:

 

[Steve Karr]

I wouldn't get too close with new glass personally. It's to honest. Older (or German) glass is gentle on faces to me ...

 

[Nando]

I would look at a f1.5 Nokton too.

 

[jmkelly]

I have the f1.1 Nokton, which I like most when there is more available darkness. I shoot it a lot on the R-D1 where it crops to 75mm. I have a whole bunch of Sonnars that give me shots with a character I appreciate more than that from the Nokton. My very best portraits of my daughter I made with the 75mm Summilux on a Hexar RF and Zeiss Ikon. The next best were made with the LTM Nikkor S.C, and with a DR Summicron, both scale-focused to around 18 inches.

 

[DNG]

ZM Sonner 1.5

ZM Sonner 1.5

No real reason other than what I have read here and have seen some great images with it too. But, I know by the same research, that the Nokton is a good performer too. if the 1.1 was the choice over the 1.5 Sonner, than price was not a huge factor. Plus a bit of snobery? I wanted at least one Zeiss lens with ZI (and save $300. too)) 😀