Sony rumored to release another A7 - A7s

[YYV_146]

How is Panasonic's GH4 writing 100Mb/sec internally?

Because the GH4 is using the newest iteration of UHS-I speed standards, and can output over 100mb/s to compatible cards. The problem is that there aren't many compatible cards (the fastest commercial UHS-I SD cards can only manage around 60mb/s continuous write and peaks at slightly over 100), and for full size 4k video the GH4 also must rely on tethering.

With 4:2:2 4k you're looking at around 200mb/s. That's firmly in UHS-II territory, and currently only Toshiba makes those cards, and at a wopping $10 per Gb...http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/151254900448?lpid=82

 

[bwcolor]

Atomos 4K Recorder

A7s Ship Date: June

 

[btgc]

Where is used 4K video, I wonder? Is it a practical need or just "because we can"?

 

[Samouraï]

Where is used 4K video, I wonder? Is it a practical need or just "because we can"?

4K will soon be the new standard. It won't last as long as 1080p did, as 8K is already on the horizon (and it's a sight to behold).

It's not only practical, but necessary. This is not a camera aimed at folks filming home videos. And how could it be when it requires an external recorder? It's made for people who make movies for a living.

---

The problem I have is that I don't see the reason for the A7s. You can purchase a BlackMagic Production Camera that has a 4K S35 sensor with a global shutter. And for only $3,000. It's bigger than the A7s, for sure, but it also offers internal RAW. And records to SSD's. Now with the A7s, you need to factor in rigging costs. To make the most basic setup possible with the external recorder, you're looking at around the same costs to shoot. Most filmmakers would prefer a S35 sensor, anyway. That said, the full-frame images looked gorgeous, even if they were only 8-bit.

I guess it would be preposterously expensive to produce, but an internally recorded 4K S35 camera with a global shutter and 5-axis sensor/image stabilization would absolutely rock the filmmaking world.

And who wants to be shooting video with all these FE lenses that suffer from such awful vignetting?

My question: Can you shoot with the A7s in crop mode and avoid pixel binning with the internal 1080p codec? Because that could help make this feel like more of a pretty sweet camera.

 

[bwcolor]

The BlackMagic is a smaller sensor.. yes?
The beauty of the A7s is the HD, not the 4K.

 

[Samouraï]

The BlackMagic is a smaller sensor.. yes?
The beauty of the A7s is the HD, not the 4K.

As I said, Super35 is a better sensor size for general filmmaking. Full-frame is a niche image size that isn't really helpful for anything but hiding your expensive (or in this case: nonexistent) art direction, due to the inherently shallower DOF.

But what do you mean: "the beauty...is the HD, not the 4K"? Is the internal codec that good? We are back to pixel binning with the 1080p image, no? So what's the point?

---

Now, I would love this camera if it had a nice autofocus system for still photography. Twelve megapixels and 400,000+iso? Sounds like a hell of a fun camera. But as it stands, the A7s only has contrast-detect autofocus (which is a real buzzkill, as we've seen with the A7R), and only 2.5fps. How is it that we can only muster 2.5fps from a 12mp sensor? And no phase-detect? I thought the A6000 tech would be finding its way into the A7 series, finally. Maybe it's a mechanical limitation. We do have an electronic first curtain shutter like the A7, at least.

How cool would this camera have been if the "S" had stood for both "sensitivity" and for 'silent'?

I know I've only negative opinions, and that can be a bit of a buzzkill. I'm still attracted to the camera. And as much as I damn my A7R, I do enjoy using it and its lenses. But this A7s will need to be handled to be understood. Because as far as specs are concerned, I can't understand it.

 

[bwcolor]

Yes, you are correct... back to pixel binning, or tossing lines. What I am saying is that most of those on the general boards would get and use this for the higher bitrate HD and not the 4K. Also, the improved low light capability with fast legacy glass, but that will have to wait until someone reviews this camera.

 

[redsky]

Did you guys watch that video? How terrible did the 24-70FE look in its one shot? I thought very. I would kill for a good 24-70/4. Everything else looked pretty amazing, though.

Could not find it. Do you mind sharing the t?

 

[Samouraï]

Yes, you are correct... back to pixel binning, or tossing lines. What I am saying is that most of those on the general boards would get and use this for the higher bitrate HD and not the 4K. Also, the improved low light capability with fast legacy glass, but that will have to wait until someone reviews this camera.

You can load up Magic Lantern firmware on a 5DII and get RAW with a 60-80mbps recording. Maybe Sony's codec and compression are fairly amazing and the 50mbps will be fighting above its weight, but all things considered, Sony needs to be doing better than this in 2014. The 5DII can shoot RAW. Let that sink in. Sure the high ISO capabilities are amazing for the price, but is that all?

I suppose it will be the best Digital M camera besides those from Leica. I doubt legacy glass will have an issue, and I the dynamic range should be pretty phenomenal (according to Sony, anyway).

---

Could not find it. Do you mind sharing the t?

As for the A7s short film (the one that showcases both the 4K footage, as well as the 300mm A-mount and FE lens lineup--including one shot from the 24-70). Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEA_8A9TBGM

It's rather a lovely video, albeit one that completely avoids camera movement (perhaps the rolling shutter is quite noticable).
The 24-70 happens in the middle somewhere. A wide-angle, overhead shot.

 

[redsky]

As for the A7s short film (the one that showcases both the 4K footage, as well as the 300mm A-mount and FE lens lineup--including one shot from the 24-70). Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEA_8A9TBGM

The 24-70 happens in the middle somewhere. A wide-angle, overhead shot.

I don't think so, I watched the movie three times.
There is the old A-mount 24-70mm f/2.8 there.

 

[Samouraï]

I don't think so, I watched the movie three times.
There is the old A-mount 24-70mm f/2.8 there.

Oh you're right. Just rewatched. Must have been the sugar pill effect.

 

[michaelwj]

It already is confusing with only the A7 A7r to choose between, now we have the A7s, A7, and A7r at 12, 24, 36 MP! I can see a lot of second guessing, but I suppose they expect you to get all three. I can see the threads all over the net now: "Should I get the A7a, A7b, A7c, ..."

I wonder if they only released the A7 if their total sales would be any different?

Michael

This is just the first of additional cameras produced to the A7/A7r theme. By the next Photokina the many different choices will be confusing - not only from Sony, but likely all the other digital camera manufacturers as well.

Sony didn't bring out new cameras with the 7/7r, they brought out an entirely new class of camera. Now all the other manufacturers are in a race to get their version to the marketplace ASAP while Sony is in a race to keep their 1st place in the full frame "mirrorless" line. Give it a few years and there will be dozens of similar choices aiming at photogs hard earned camera budget.

Stephen

 

[JYPfoto]

Because the GH4 is using the newest iteration of UHS-I speed standards, and can output over 100mb/s to compatible cards. The problem is that there aren't many compatible cards (the fastest commercial UHS-I SD cards can only manage around 60mb/s continuous write and peaks at slightly over 100), and for full size 4k video the GH4 also must rely on tethering.

With 4:2:2 4k you're looking at around 200mb/s. That's firmly in UHS-II territory, and currently only Toshiba makes those cards, and at a wopping $10 per Gb...http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/151254900448?lpid=82

There are a few coming from Sandisk and from the MSRP it's supposed to be much cheaper, still expensive but cheaper than the Toshiba which from what I can tell much be imported from Japan.

16GB- $75
32GB- $130
64GB- $245

The UHS-I Class 3 cards though which are recommended by PAnasonic for their Gh4 are much more competitive. The Kingston 64Gb is around $105 and I heard that Transcend is releasing a 128Gb for a similar price.

 

[JYPfoto]

Any rumors about the price $$ ??

The rumored price put up by dpreview seemed like a rush job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-THzgdsRTZM

If you scroll to around the 4 minute mark you'll hear Atomos the developer of the 4k monitor speak about how the package for the a7s plus the monitor should be around $5k. The suggested retail price for the monitor is a little less than $2k. My guess is that the a7s will come out at $2,798 like the RX1, and early adopters will get hit with the early adopter tax with prices dropping around 15-20% within 6 months like the other a7 siblings.

My issue with the a7s is that similar to other Sony offerings in the past, they're one or two features from being almost ideal. They say it records 4k, but only to an external monitor. They neglect to put a touch screen which would make focusing easier. Plus unlike the GH4 with a nicely placed video record button they kept it the same as the other a7 bodies and kept it in the awkward side angled position which other users of the a7 have complained about either how hard or how easy it is to press.

 

[Archiver]

I'm really looking forward to this camera. The quality of the 4K footage is astounding, and I would only use 4K for landscape and nature shoots that would benefit from that kind of detail and dynamic range. My thoughts are to use my existing Canon glass, like the 16-35L, 24-105L and 70-200 f4L with an adapter.

There's a promo shot in Scotland that was done with in-camera 1080p, and even that looks great. Detail is resolved very nicely and dynamic range is way up. You can use S-log in 1080p and still get a big dynamic range jump.

There are a couple of videos here that don't seem to be available elsewhere:

http://www.fstopacademy.com/blog/sony-alpha-7s-first-hands-on-shooting-review/


I'll continue to use the GH3, and later the GH4, but I am giving very serious thought to getting the A7S.

 

[Samouraï]

I'm really looking forward to this camera. The quality of the 4K footage is astounding, and I would only use 4K for landscape and nature shoots that would benefit from that kind of detail and dynamic range. My thoughts are to use my existing Canon glass, like the 16-35L, 24-105L and 70-200 f4L with an adapter.

There's a promo shot in Scotland that was done with in-camera 1080p, and even that looks great. Detail is resolved very nicely and dynamic range is way up. You can use S-log in 1080p and still get a big dynamic range jump.

There are a couple of videos here that don't seem to be available elsewhere:

http://www.fstopacademy.com/blog/sony-alpha-7s-first-hands-on-shooting-review/


I'll continue to use the GH3, and later the GH4, but I am giving very serious thought to getting the A7S.

The news about the S-Log is especially exciting; does it cost extra to license it like older Sony cameras? Five-thousand dollars for a 4K camera seems awfully expensive. I was betting this setup would cost $3,500 for the camera and recorder.

 

[Archiver]

Australian preorder retail price is $3499.95 as of April 2014. Facepalm.

 

[Hsg]

I read somewhere that the Sony A7s has a dynamic range of 15 stops, is that accurate?

 

[Samouraï]

I read somewhere that the Sony A7s has a dynamic range of 15 stops, is that accurate?

According to Sony, dr is in the 15.3-stop range. Which is amazing. But they're doing some sort of local dimming crap on the sensor to get these numbers, so the dynamic range isn't really a true 15 stops (to my knowledge it's a sort of trick). Can't wait to see reviews and lab tests.

 

[Samouraï]

I'm less than impressed with the A7S results. http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Comp...-versus-Sony-A7-versus-Sony-A7R___949_916_917

The metal flange is nice. The full-pixel readout sensor (for video) is super nice. First for a full frame sensor I believe. The highspeed autofocus is a godsend/finally usable. And the silent electronic shutter mode is pretty damn neat (in the right conditions). It will also play nicer with wide-angle rangefinder lenses. Seems like a great nighttime streetshooter. Otherwise, I'm pretty disappointed in the low-iso dynamic range.