Sources report China sales occupy over 50% of Leica's market

thegman said:
Why does he regret it?

I'm not suggesting you think this, but sometimes I get the impression that Western Leica buyers are seen as 'real photographers', but Chinese buyers are just 'new money' looking for some bling gear.

Not accusing anyone of anything, but does anybody else get this impression?
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Not really, I met some Chinese Leica users, most of them just like us. Collector's items are different. Due to large population of China, the demanding is high and they crick up the used market price, this is bad news for us, however, Leica is also sell lots of new stuff to them, this keeps Leica viable.
 
Since I am in China I want to share something, and I promise hand on heart that this is not BS.

A friend of mine got a Leica M9 a while ago and a 90 AA, 21 f1.4, and 50 f0.95. His other friend saw that and got pretty much the same kit but a M240 and no 90, rather getting that wide angle tri elmar thing. And all just because he could and quite easily.

This other friend also happens to have TWO Rolls Royce's, a Ferarri California, a Lambo Aventador, a Merc AMG G63, endless Porche's from Boxter's to 911's to Cayenne's, a few Range Rovers, and a garage full of motorcycles and god knows what else he has stashed away in other garages.

Add to that he has a private plane, and several houses in Vancouver Canada, plus body guards.

If this sounds wild....its not. Here it really is not all that unusual.

I once saw a Ferarri 612 in Seattle, also once saw a Alfa Romero 8C, and an Austin Martin DB9. Thats about it.

Here...that what I see at lunch.

Communism my arse.
 
Growing economics stimulate people to spend more on leisure goods.
Shrinking economics stimulate people to save on leisure in favour for living expenses.
 
funny how i was talking to my gf that few years ago you see all canon and nikon with top of the line lenses, we should start seeing more leicas and noctilux

there are many camera enthusiaists in china, as there was a camera craze in japan in the 60s to present, this sort of hobbies get picked up all around asia too.

it's sad though unlike the japanese in the post-war era, the chinese are only interested in buying rather than producing their own high end stuff. everyone's gone their different path growing from wealth but i am quite certain chinese is on the wrong foot with their money. consumerism brought down US and it's likely paving way for the china too; although with the dirty money-getting caught mentality there aren't too many people staying to producing much goods(invention, new tech, etc)
 
as for communism, this idea died long ago in the 70s/80s when chairman deng took office. china is actually more capitalism than the US is today.

and gold isn't just china, indians like gold as much as the chinese do.
 
Oh believe me, they know they are on the wrong foot here.

Chinese people are sweating over the problem that China does not have many truly competitive world brands. Even Chinese people do not prefer to buy Chinese because they know the mentality here when it comes to making things, screw everyone, just get money in my pocket.

My uncle (in law) is a vehemently anti Japanese individual as is common here. The other day he asked me to help him buy a camera but would absolutely not consider any Japanese brand and wanted to know what Chinese brands were good. I told him there were no Chinese camera brands and he flipped out that I would dare say something like that.


But when it comes to Leica gear, do not worry! It will not stay in China. When Chinese get affluent to the point where they are able to buy things like Leica's and such, they usually take all their money and flee. A government report by the Chinese gov themselves said last year over a TRILLION dollars was illegally smuggled out of China to America. Just America. How many Leica's are coming along for the trip I wonder.
 
Avotius said:
Oh believe me, they know they are on the wrong foot here.

Chinese people are sweating over the problem that China does not have many truly competitive world brands. Even Chinese people do not prefer to buy Chinese because they know the mentality here when it comes to making things, screw everyone, just get money in my pocket.

My uncle (in law) is a vehemently anti Japanese individual as is common here. The other day he asked me to help him buy a camera but would absolutely not consider any Japanese brand and wanted to know what Chinese brands were good. I told him there were no Chinese camera brands and he flipped out that I would dare say something like that.


But when it comes to Leica gear, do not worry! It will not stay in China. When Chinese get affluent to the point where they are able to buy things like Leica's and such, they usually take all their money and flee. A government report by the Chinese gov themselves said last year over a TRILLION dollars was illegally smuggled out of China to America. Just America. How many Leica's are coming along for the trip I wonder.
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There are Chinese camera brands, but you've got to go for something a little unusual, there are plenty of view cameras made in China, and also there is Fotoman, which I have something of a soft spot for. I think Fotoman offers some pretty nice cameras and good value considering how niche/low sales they must be.
 
thegman said:
There are Chinese camera brands, but you've got to go for something a little unusual, there are plenty of view cameras made in China, and also there is Fotoman, which I have something of a soft spot for. I think Fotoman offers some pretty nice cameras and good value considering how niche/low sales they must be.
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I should have mentioned he was looking for a digital something under 300 dollars. And yeah I have never seen a Fotoman here in China before. Just Sinar's and the like.
 
Avotius said:
I told him there were no Chinese camera brands and he flipped out that I would dare say something like that.
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You have Shen Hao and Chamonix, both making very nice view cameras at competitive prices. At least for Chamonix, the reason they're making good cameras is that the owner wanted quality view cameras, so decided to start making them himself, but they only employ 8 people (http://www.chamonixviewcamera.com). It's basically a Chinese version of the Ebony camera story.

Eventually, you'll probably have a local billionaire with enough ego and nationalistic pride to decide that he must have quality digital or at least electronic cameras "made in China."
 
Shen hao and Chamonix are not popular here at all. No one wants made in china here in china. That really is not how the market is moving here right now. In 10-20 years maybe. But China has nothing like a Canon or Nikon or even Casio to put on the photo market.
 
I heard China is taking sandpaper to all black paint Leicas and then is selling them at double the price! ;)
 
noimmunity said:
It was said the greater China market was the decisive factor in the inclusion of video capability on the M240.
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I don't mind that the new M has video. What is irritating is that there's a whole button dedicated to it right on the top plate where fingers rest and it can accidentally be pushed. I really hope in the M.2/M-P Leica removes it.
 
problem is they are more individualistic than the japanese and americans to their respective times, partly due to the dirty money, and partly due to the family-centric mentality. and then another whole piece of grass is greener in thy neighbor.

and they are paying overpriced brand names from europe that no one care for anymore (the protectionism and the brainwashing of china=commy= evil has been very effective since cold war)

Avotius said:
Oh believe me, they know they are on the wrong foot here.

Chinese people are sweating over the problem that China does not have many truly competitive world brands. Even Chinese people do not prefer to buy Chinese because they know the mentality here when it comes to making things, screw everyone, just get money in my pocket.

My uncle (in law) is a vehemently anti Japanese individual as is common here. The other day he asked me to help him buy a camera but would absolutely not consider any Japanese brand and wanted to know what Chinese brands were good. I told him there were no Chinese camera brands and he flipped out that I would dare say something like that.


But when it comes to Leica gear, do not worry! It will not stay in China. When Chinese get affluent to the point where they are able to buy things like Leica's and such, they usually take all their money and flee. A government report by the Chinese gov themselves said last year over a TRILLION dollars was illegally smuggled out of China to America. Just America. How many Leica's are coming along for the trip I wonder.
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If the Chinese made a full frame mirrorless with interchangable lenses they could do it at a price that would make Fuji or Sony choke I suspect and you can't tell me they aren't capable.

They're currently building a space station for ****'s sake! :D
 
Interesting that no one here is questionig the source of the OP's "sources report" comment. Quite a contrast to the current "sources report" Neopan 400 and Provia 400X are discontinued thread.
 
I think that is great; quality cameras occasionally produce quality pictures. The Leica system is the basis of our work when we use 35mm or now digital FF. So, good for Leica.
 
There is the 1% elite and then the 20% middle class and then the wealth gap is like the Grand Canyon with the next 40% of laborers and migrant workers and the rest of the population in deep poverty. The 20 percenters make roughly ten times more than the 40 percenters. This is why local Chinese brands are crappy if they only sold domestically. People will buy the best foreign brands because they can afford it. The ones that cannot will buy the cheapest domestic brands. You can't expect a domestic brand costing much less and made for a poor population to match the quality of a foreign product.
 
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