Special developing for Orthochromatic B&W??

[Pirate]

Stopped by the camera shop to pick up a roll I had developed and they handed it back. Said the lab couldn't develop it because it's Orthochromatic and needs special equipment they don't have.

???? It's not normal B&W process? I know what the film it, that's why I shot it, but I've never read anything about it being different to develop.

Anyone??

 

[ZorkiKat]

If it's ortho "line" film - high contrast for graphics- the lab may have been right in not accepting the film. They may have assumed that developing it right means high contrast negatives in the end. To do that they would need to have special developers which may be found more in printing shops than in photo labs.

However if it's continuous tone ortho film, or line film which you used for pictorial purposes, you could have told them to just develop it in ordinary film developer. And that they don't even have to worry much about the times- they could develop it by inspection under red safelights.

 

[Pirate]

it's this:

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/37210...matic-120-size-Single-Roll-Unboxed?cat_id=403

 

[Edward C. Zimmermann]

However if it's continuous tone ortho film, or line film which you used for pictorial purposes, you could have told them to just develop it in ordinary film developer.

If they did that it would look horrible. To get pictorial tonality out of ortho film (such as Agfa Ortho 25, Rollei Ortho 25 and other document films) one must "underdevelop" them using POTA, highly dilute Rodinal or a host of other very soft developers. Its really the same "trick" as developing microfilm--- and as such it has some of the same technical hurdles and pitfalls.

 

[Pirate]

I'm used to Tetenal Neofin Blau for my black and whites.

So I should experiment a little and find how much of a dilution of Neofin Blau works best for what I want?

 

[Roger Hicks]

This sort of film is VERY sensitive to development. I'd only do it for a good friend who completely understood that it might turn out badly. It's not 'special equipment'; it's 'special developer'.

Cheers,

R/

 

[Pirate]

Got it. I was just looking into the Rollei developers. I'll try some of those out when I get to my new home next week.

Thanks all!

 

[Edward C. Zimmermann]

I'd only do it for a good friend who completely understood that it might turn out badly.

Why should it come out badly? Working with micro and document films to get pictorial results is quite well understood. Using ortho document films for pictorial applications was even featured in Willie Beutler's "Meine Dunklekammer Praxis" nearly 1/2 a century ago. The general problem is less development but exposure as due to the soft development technique the films tend to be quite slow and also have very poor latitude. If exposed correctly--- to the standards one tends to accept for diapositives (slides) and cinema--- for the chosen development process--- different developers etc. can yield quite different curves, e.g. ISO--- the results are quite reliable.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Why should it come out badly? Working with micro and document films to get pictorial results is quite well understood. Using ortho document films for pictorial applications was even featured in Willie Beutler's "Meine Dunklekammer Praxis" nearly 1/2 a century ago. The general problem is less development but exposure as due to the soft development technique the films tend to be quite slow and also have very poor latitude. If exposed correctly--- to the standards one tends to accept for diapositives (slides) and cinema--- for the chosen development process--- different developers etc. can yield quite different curves, e.g. ISO--- the results are quite reliable.

Why? Simply because I've no experience of the film in question and would reckon on 'wasting' at least one film to find out. Which is, I suspect, exactly the situation in which the lab found itself.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Rhodes]

If they did that it would look horrible. To get pictorial tonality out of ortho film (such as Agfa Ortho 25, Rollei Ortho 25 and other document films) one must "underdevelop" them using POTA, highly dilute Rodinal or a host of other very soft developers. Its really the same "trick" as developing microfilm--- and as such it has some of the same technical hurdles and pitfalls.

Need help understanding what POTA is. And how dilute rodinal should be? Classic 1:100, 1:200 or 1:300? Agfa ortho sheet says 4 minuts at rodinal 1+10.

 

[Pirate]

I've been looking through the Rollei developers and films. I might be ready to try this in a week or two.

 

[Edward C. Zimmermann]

Need help understanding what POTA is.

A brew developed by Marlyn Levy in the 1960s when she worked for the U.S. Navy's Photo-Optics unit in New Jersey.The formula was published in "Wide Latitude Photography," Photographic Science and Engineering (1967).

A popular recipe is:
500 ml dist. Water (35c/95F)
30g Sodium Sulfite
1.5g Phenidone
Water (dist.) to make 1 litre.
Use as soon as the developer reaches 24C/75F

And how dilute rodinal should be?

Agfa in their booklet "Dokumentenfotografie fuer Amateure" suggest:
Rodinal 1 + 200 + 1% waterless Soda (Sodium Carbonate sicc.).
[5 ml Rodinal. Fill to 1 Liter with 20C water. Add 10g Soda sicc. and use immediately]
The times for Agfa Ortho 25 given were 6 min @ 20C. "Agfa Inversion": 1 min. continuous followed by inversion every 30 seconds.

Agfa ortho sheet says 4 minuts at rodinal 1+10.

That's for a high contrast negatives and not pictorial applications.

 

[sniki]

I'm very very satisfied of results of Rollei 25 Ortho and Efke 25 Ortho development, by souping them in Rodinal 1:200 for 1 hour in standing development technique.

 

[Rhodes]

I see, thank you Edward C. Zimmermann!

 

[Fotohuis]

You can develop them in a high dilution of Rodinal (1+100 or more) or use a low contrast document developer. I had perfect results in Rollei Low Contrast. It's one of the Udo Raffay low contrast document developers.

 

[Pirate]

I see, thank you Edward C. Zimmermann!

and then some. Dude! Seriously!

I was going to try the Rollei Low Contrast developer and see where it gets me.

Also, I was thinking of using this Rollei Ortho 25 to create a Positive Black and White, as outlined in my other thread asking about Positive B&W films.

 

[sepiareverb]

I like this one in Rodinal 1:50 or the Rollei RHS at 1:9, minimal agitation for both. Contrasty negs, but not overboard by any means. I generally find them about a grade or grade and a quarter stronger than my FP4/HP5 stuff. I ran a bunch of this stuff pinning it down- very sensitive to development is an understatement in my experience. Not a film I will run if I'm tired or distracted.

 

[Fotohuis]

Rollei Ortho 25 in RLC 1+4 for 8:30 minutes.