'Splain to me M6 variations.

As a long time Leica user, I have to jump in and say that going from the IIIg to the M series was a big jump; anything since then has been minor. I was delighted when the M4 came out, and the loading spool didn't anymore. The rewind crank and wind lever, as well as the finder are all developments which were for the better.

When the M6 came out, and after the later circuitry got introduced, I really had no more requests. However, for various reasons I now have a couple of M6TTL's along with an M4 that I got in the 60's and an M7 which is the only camera my wife ever got me (a surprise, and therefore I'll not sell it even though I'd not have bought one myself).

The dial and readouts in the M6TTL are a lot better than on the M6, and the height change doesn't bother me. The (re)introduction of the MP - I think the original stood for 'Presse', while this one stands for 'prehistoric' - seems similar to moaning about the good old days. I mean, sure, I loved the VW Beetle I had in the 60's, and it didn't have a heater that worked, but I think progress has it's good points. I'll take a car with a functional heater, and I'll take a camera that has crank for rewinding that allows me to change film faster.

Other M6 variations are the M6J (reasonably left to collectors) and the various viewfinder variations, as well as the 'Panda' and other variations with cosmetic differences.

Henning
 
MP/M7 viewfinder

MP/M7 viewfinder

Oops, forgot about the viewfinder improvements in the MP and later M7's.

Changes to the viewfinder, both optically and in the area of coatings make the MP and M7 viewfinders much less prone to 'flare-out', and that is a real advance, or possibly 'retro advance', as earlier M cameras didn't have the problem nearly as much as the M6's. I forget when the earlier change took place; sometime between the M4 and M6. M6's can have the viewfinder upgraded to some of the MP's quality.

The flare hasn't bothered me enough to do anything about it, but some people consider it a major part of the value of the MP.

Henning
 
I think the flare problem in part depends on the kind of shooting you do and where you live. I've had my M6TTL for a couple days short of two years now and I never suffered from the flare issue until I went to Spain a few weeks ago. There it was just terrible and truly a problem. Now I'm going to get it fixed by DAG.

 
The flex circuit boards in the earlier M6s are beginning to give out already.
Click to expand...

I must have missed those reports...at any rate, I haven't seen those complaints and if there's something to B&M about, it should come up on LUG. Those "boards" are mylar or something similar and are all but indestructible. You can't even melt them with a soldering iron. Actually, if there are faults appearing, my guess would be solder connections are coming loose, which should be pretty easy to fix.

I may have missed something here, and would be interested to hear more about electrical failures in the M6s.
 
My recollection of the reports is that the earlier printed circuit boards (PCBs) were made of a rather brittle material that induced intermittent failure on the surface substrate of the board where the thin copper circuits are. Apparently Leica re-sourced the PCBs and the later ones were more reliable. The problems were near the top of the camera where the PCB made a right-angle to go to the back of the camera from near the front then another 90º turn orthogonal to the first then another 90º turn so that the PCB could interface with the shutter dial.

 
Before buying my M6 I was warned by a repirman in the Leica club here in Stockholm. He told me the circuit boards of the earlier M6 could fail, and the repair was very costly.

I did not ask if this faliure was due to rough handling of the camera, or if it will happen regardless to a random number of M6s.

Prior to this thread this is the only time I have come across this issue, and I suspect the board doesn't fail that often.

Anyway I still bought an older version M6 and it works fine. If the board dies on me it's still the camera I prefer for my black lenses.
 
unsharp said:
Before buying my M6 I was warned by a repirman in the Leica club here in Stockholm. He told me the circuit boards of the earlier M6 could fail, and the repair was very costly.

I did not ask if this faliure was due to rough handling of the camera, or if it will happen regardless to a random number of M6s.

Prior to this thread this is the only time I have come across this issue, and I suspect the board doesn't fail that often.

Anyway I still bought an older version M6 and it works fine. If the board dies on me it's still the camera I prefer for my black lenses.
Click to expand...

What's the definition of "Early M6". I am considering buying a Leitz M6 in a local store either today or tomorrow, and you guys made me hestitate ... The serial number starts with 242*** which dates to ~1997, is that consider early?
 
Definition of an older M6?

The one with the Leitz red dot logo are the oldest ones. I have no information as to when the design of the circuit board was updated, but you can probably find the info on the net. I think you need a serial number around 2.000.000 or so.

All M6 are really good cameras. Any 20 year old camera can brake down, even a Leica. It's just that sometimes we Leica nuts need something to talk about, and things get out of proportion.

The summer is short, get that M6 and you will enjoy it!!! 🙂
 
Dredged up this old thread because I'm told my 1984 M6 may have just this fault and I was searching for more info. We'll see what the report is! I'm thinking that I'll pony up for the repair because although I've owned or used just about every M other than the M7 and M8, this is actually my favorite M body. We'll see...
 
Did anyone ever determine when the approximate S/N cutover point was between the two types of PCB? Did it coincide with the change that causes the LEDs to blink when the lens cap is on?
 
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well i think that everyone summed it up :

TTL has better viewfinder ( less prone to flare ), a dot in the meter to include proper exposure and also to show half a stop under and over exposure ( one arrow is one full stop, one arrow and a dot is half ) , its about 2-3mm taller, cant be 100% functional without batteries as in the M6, its newer ( and as in all new things its less prone to fail, but then again a older cared - as in couple of CLA's - or never used M6 Classic is better than a M6TTL heavily used and abuses - use your common sense here ) and they go for around 400 to 600 usd more. Plus , last but not least, they have the TTL circuitry for flash ( god forbid ) and wheel is bigger ( speed selection ) AND also turn into the right direction ( yadadad, I'm going to be burned with flash bulbs, i know 🙂 ).

Now, if you never used a leica, this problably wont mater. For me it does. I was looking for a backup body for my M7 and tried to use for a couple of days a M6 classic ( i couldnt care less for the TTL circuitry and the non dependance of batteries was appealing ).. It is fine on its own, but if you have a lens mounted on each camera, its kinda nuts going one side with the speed dial with one camera and backwards on another.

So I dropped the idea of getting a M6 classic, albeit it felt nice on my hands, bla bla bla... But its just awkaward - just because my first leica was a M7 - if it was a M6 classic or MP , im sure the same akward feeling would applie to the M7. Horses for courses I guess.

So pick a M6 or M6TTL, cant be wrong with either - both fine cameras. If you can pick a good M6 classic, you'll save a few hundereds - maybe can be used in buying a good lens ? or even loads of film ?

Remember the old english joke "How do I get to Carnegie Hall ? A😛ractice, Practice, Practice" .. so just buy a M6 and shoot a lot 🙂
 
No, the TTL has the same VF as a Classic. No difference in flare characteristics, and both are upgradeable with MP parts.

Also, a TTL is fully mechanical - it isn't battery dependent.

proenca said:
well i think that everyone summed it up :

TTL has better viewfinder ( less prone to flare ), a dot in the meter to include proper exposure and also to show half a stop under and over exposure ( one arrow is one full stop, one arrow and a dot is half ) , its about 2-3mm taller, cant be 100% functional without batteries as in the M6, its newer ( and as in all new things its less prone to fail, but then again a older cared - as in couple of CLA's - or never used M6 Classic is better than a M6TTL heavily used and abuses - use your common sense here ) and they go for around 400 to 600 usd more. Plus , last but not least, they have the TTL circuitry for flash ( god forbid ) and wheel is bigger ( speed selection ) AND also turn into the right direction ( yadadad, I'm going to be burned with flash bulbs, i know 🙂 ).

Now, if you never used a leica, this problably wont mater. For me it does. I was looking for a backup body for my M7 and tried to use for a couple of days a M6 classic ( i couldnt care less for the TTL circuitry and the non dependance of batteries was appealing ).. It is fine on its own, but if you have a lens mounted on each camera, its kinda nuts going one side with the speed dial with one camera and backwards on another.

So I dropped the idea of getting a M6 classic, albeit it felt nice on my hands, bla bla bla... But its just awkaward - just because my first leica was a M7 - if it was a M6 classic or MP , im sure the same akward feeling would applie to the M7. Horses for courses I guess.

So pick a M6 or M6TTL, cant be wrong with either - both fine cameras. If you can pick a good M6 classic, you'll save a few hundereds - maybe can be used in buying a good lens ? or even loads of film ?

Remember the old english joke "How do I get to Carnegie Hall ? A😛ractice, Practice, Practice" .. so just buy a M6 and shoot a lot 🙂
Click to expand...
 
One thing I read above is incorrect, I believe. The axis of the M6 "classic" shutter speed dial is in the same place as the M2/M3/M4. The quote below may be right if it referred to the M6 TTL.

From the M6 onwards Leida placed the centre of the dial further to the front of the camera.
Click to expand...
 
Ken Ford said:
Did anyone ever determine when the approximate S/N cutover point was between the two types of PCB? Did it coincide with the change that causes the LEDs to blink when the lens cap is on?
Click to expand...

Edit to add:

The following is from Stephen Gandy's Cameraquest website. This appears to answer the question above.

Per Jim Lager in his book "Leica An Illustrated History Volume 1 Cameras," the LED blinking feature was added in chrome from # 1761599 and in black from # 1773199. These changes occurred in later 1988 for black and early 1989 for chrome.
Click to expand...
 
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