Staining developers

[CharlesDAMorgan]

I thoroughly enjoy developing black and white film at home, and I'm keen to try using staining developers - my research reveals different types of Pyro and Tanol. My aim is to develop faster films with sharpness but with less obvious grain, but also, and probably more important, to try something different. The winter is coming and I will spend longer in my kitchen, I mean darkroom!

I'd be really grateful for thoughts, experiences and suggestions about which developers to try and what to look out for.

 

[sem]

Hi Charles,

you might take a look at:
https://www.moersch-photochemie.de/content/lang:en
you will find datasheets for most films.
Temperature and agitation also the information about the stop bath and the fixer are important.
Older films are more tanol like
Modern fine grain films more finol like, you get more speed.
I use them for a long time and I am very satisfied
Don´t want to make a commercial but hope it helps finding what you are looking for.
Best

 

[Larry H-L]

I have used Pyrocat HD and more recently Pyrocat MC, both 1:1:100. It looks really good on larger format film, but it is too grainy for my taste on 35mm, with a look that is similar to Rodinal-like developers.

Pyrocat gives a slight yellow/brown stain, but I don't see any benefit of the stain except when contact printing large format negatives.

It comes in easy-to-use liquid form in two bottles, good shelf life in concentrated, unmixed form. I tried stand development, but got terrible streaks, so I have gone back to regular agitation. You can also use Pryocat as separate two part developers, similar to using Diafine. Good luck.

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

Thank you both - those links are spectacular Sem, really helpful, also your experiences Larry H-L. I'd rather not get the grain of Rodinal from a developer I'd like to reduce grain. I'll do some more research on tanol and finol, any others' input welcome!

 

[mconnealy]

I got started using PMK Pyro based on my admiration for the work of New Zealander, Rick Drawbridge. His images show an amazing tonal range and fine grain, even with cheap films like Kentmere. An interesting aspect of his technique is that he does gentle agitation at one-minute intervals which is a big departure from the box-recommended 15 seconds. The only downside I have encountered is that you lose one stop in film sensitivity with PMK. I have read that Hypercat does not have the speed penalty, so I may give that a try.

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

Thanks Mike - the lower agitation bit makes sense from a normal developer standpoint. A great link to some lovely images.

 

[Larry Cloetta]

https://www.sandykingphotography.com/resources/technical-writing/pyro-staining-developers

Charles, there is a fair amount of information out there, and this is a decent start. I have only ever used PMK myself and really like it, but mostly use it with slower speed films like FP4+, shot at even slower speeds, and mostly use it to get tonality effects I cannot achieve elsewhere, not reduced grain. Grain is lovely with slower speed films, but too much for me with things like Tri-x, just a personal taste.
Not an expert myself, but found it well worth exploring. People are sure to decry the toxicity, but be careful and it’s not an issue, or at least needn’t be, again a personal opinion only.

Gordon Hutchings “The Book of Pyro” is probably the definitive source as I am sure others will point out. Out of print, but copies can be found, and worth the asking price, whatever it is.

Plenty of information out there, and worth pursuing. Have fun!

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

Thanks Larry, most helpful! I plan to pick the brains of the photographer who made me my pinhole camera and who has been using Pyro for decades. Possibly in the next fortnight.

 

[sem]

Hi Charles!

here can find the results film + developer in real live:

https://www.flickr.com/groups/moersch/

Hope you´ll find what are you looking for!
Best

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

I'm a big fan of PMK, and have used it for 13 years. Its not my only developer, but for some films I really love it. In my experience it works best on Ilford FP4 and HP5, and on Foma films. It is also good on Tmax 100 amd Tmax 400; less stain than on Ilford films, but great tonality and sharpness.


It does not work well on Ilford Pan-F and I don't really like it with Tri-X either.

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

As I have a fairly large stock of Bergger Pancro floating around I'll start with PMK Pyro and see how that goes. When I next order in stuff from Fotoimpex I'll get some Moersch, but I'll research which first.

Thanks all so far, it really has been tremendously helpful. I found that link on the Moersch site thanks to your earlier link Sem - it's amazingly good. Not that my photos will turn out like that...

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

As I have a fairly large stock of Bergger Pancro floating around I'll start with PMK Pyro and see how that goes. When I next order in stuff from Fotoimpex I'll get some Moersch, but I'll research which first.

Thanks all so far, it really has been tremendously helpful. I found that link on the Moersch site thanks to your earlier link Sem - it's amazingly good. Not that my photos will turn out like that...

If you ever decide to use PMK with Ilford, Kodak, Foma, or Fuji Acros check out my tested developing times for those films.

http://crawfordphotoschool.com/film/developing.php?tab=3

 

[Deleted member 65559]

I've been using staining developers for more than 20yrs, starting with PMK and then switching to Sandy King's Pyrocat (lower toxicity). It's my standard film developer. Print times are shorter with Pyrocat than with the denser stain of PMK. PMK printed particularly well on graded papers. Both produce negatives with beautiful separation in the highlights that print easily. As far as grain, both work very well on any film (with
greater edge effect on non-T grain films) and do not show any exaggerated grain at all. It's a great developer for smaller formats. My usual films are Ilford FP4+ and Tri-X in 35mm, 120, & 5x7."

 

[dtcls100]

Just remember the pyro developers can be quite toxic and are suspected mutagens/carcinogens. Try to stick with the liquid concentrates (avoid mixing powders absent special equipment to prevent powder inhalation) and wear nitrile gloves to avoid absorption and skin staining.

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

Thanks Chris, Deardorff and dtcls100. I have all the safety kit, although the Bergger PMK I've ordered is liquid. I need to track down some alkaline fixer too.

 

[Dan]

Is the value of the staining process "lost" when scanning the negative vs. wet printing?

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

Good question! Although you do have negatives you can wet print later (my plan when, if!, I move).

 

[J enea]

Is the value of the staining process "lost" when scanning the negative vs. wet printing?

I find that I get much better scanning results with Pyro-M or HD, and for the few rolls I did in pyro-510, than i do/did with non staining developers.

regardless, I prefer the printed results I get with pyro developed film over non pyro types. This is for both scanned prints and wet dark room prints.

john

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Is the value of the staining process "lost" when scanning the negative vs. wet printing?

no, its not. PMK negatives scan beautifully.

 

[Hari]

Pyrocat HD for large format HP5