Staining developers

Return Old Mans Cave 3 by Nokton48, on Flickr

4x5 Norma PL100 PMK+ Aristo RC #2 Multigrade dev

Southwest Colorado 1992 by Nokton48, on Flickr

4x5 Sinar Norma 90mm F8 Sinar Super Angulon HP5+ PMK+ 8x10 Arista RC #2 Multigrade dev

On our way to "The Great Sand Dunes National Monument" we stopped here and I was struck by the beauty of this scene. It was difficult to walk around with so many "stickers" everywhere.

Garden of the Gods Colorado 1992 by Nokton48, on Flickr

Frozen Cypress Dawes by Nokton48, on Flickr
 
I tried some experimenting this weekend. I had mentioned above seeing how Pyro developing might reduce the grain a bit on pulled 3200s - in this case I shot some Tmax P3200 at 800. It was with a Nikon EM I was testing, so three variables unfamiliar which is not a good idea. That said, exposures were fine, I might have pulled the film a little more to 640, but ultimately the grain is still very noticeable and the palate is too grey. I'd rather shoot Tmax 400 at 800 in Tmax developer than this.

It's a very fine old 15th century chantry chapel turned church of the tiniest hamlet on the Devon / Cornwall border.

all-saints-dunterton-1-of-1.jpg
 
CharlesDAMorgan said:
I tried some experimenting this weekend. I had mentioned above seeing how Pyro developing might reduce the grain a bit on pulled 3200s - in this case I shot some Tmax P3200 at 800. It was with a Nikon EM I was testing, so three variables unfamiliar which is not a good idea. That said, exposures were fine, I might have pulled the film a little more to 640, but ultimately the grain is still very noticeable and the palate is too grey. I'd rather shoot Tmax 400 at 800 in Tmax developer than this.

It's a very fine old 15th century chantry chapel turned church of the tiniest hamlet on the Devon / Cornwall border.
Click to expand...

The results look flat because Tmax 3200 (and Ilford's Delta 3200) was designed for pushing. Push processing increases contrast, so pushed film often gives poor tonality. To get around that, Kodak designed Tmax 3200 to have very low contrast when developed for its true speed (which is 800 if I remember correctly), that way the extra contrast from pushing the film to 3200 will bring the contrast of the images up to normal.
 
CharlesDAMorgan said:
Agreed Chris, best to leave it to its proper purpose.

However, Fuji Acros at 64 in Pyro (shot with my Summaron) is bursting with life. Shame about the price!
Click to expand...

Acros does look good in Pyro, and 64 is that film's true speed in PMK. Since Acros is a normal contrast film, it looks great developed normally at its true speed in Pyro.
 
Took 15 secs off the time for Foma 200 at 125 - so 8 minutes all in with added time for pre-soak and got some stunning negatives. Acros is better but not £8 better, and the negatives are totally flat. The grain is beautifully controlled by the Pyro.

M5, Collapsible M Mount Elmar 90mm f4

gunpowder-factory-1-of-1-2.jpg
 
I shot a roll of TriX at 250. Surprisingly I found it very grainy, a real shame as the skies were close to perfection for revealing highlight details.

King's Tor from the Merivale prehistoric settlement.

bigskies-1-of-1.jpg
 
And we come full circle. I started this thread to find out more about Pyro and similar developers. I've not explored any other than PMK Pyro, but my initial aim was taming grain for better results in scanning. With 90% of the films I've used that has been achieved, and I love that. However, what I hadn't thought of was the general highlight control, and actually the beauty of the negatives too. This has turned PMK Pyro from an experimental thing for me into my mainstay developing. It's easy, cheap, and produces great results on pulled film. Normal speed and pushed is the realm of other developers, so I'm not losing anything using Pyro 90% of the time. I've only really been disappointed with TriX, which results were grainy and I wonder if I made a mistake, but the surprise result for me is Fomapan 200.

At 125 for a total of 8 minutes (I always pre-wash so 7.40 if you don't) the results are consistently excellent and really beautiful. It's a very cheap film - self-loading it costs me about £2.20 a roll of 36, and that extra stop of exposure just gives a degree more latitude to use longer lenses or filters. This is All Saint's Church, Dunterton: an exquisite mediaeval chantry chapel turned parish church on the border between Devon and Cornwall. Shot on my M5 with a 35mm Summaron f2.8 and an orange filter, the result to me is far beyond what I would have expected from such a film.

Fuji Acros has also delivered delicious results. Much as I love it though, the reduction in speed to 64 and the cost of the film at £12 does limit my use.

The unlooked for pleasure - a friend, a lifelong film photographer who is an Ilford Artisan Partner has ordered in all the developer, fixer etc and is trying it for himself.

The biggest frustration - I can't print as the local darkroom I use is still shut. I see no chance of that changing.

Thanks all, especially to Chris, for your help - I really do love this stuff!

allsaintsduntertonsummaronorange-1-of-1.jpg
 
This is beautiful Charles, but the shadows in the tree (not under it, in it between foliage and trunk) have been raised too much - they look grey and undifferentiated. The orange filter doesn’t help here - the light in these shadows is usually markedly blue. But it is really beautiful. Foma 200 in Pyrocat with a medium yellow filter is my favourite currently available combination, and PMK looks pretty similar.

Marty
 
Hi Marty - I see what you mean (my screen is pretty hopeless now for that level of detail - 8 years of accumulated smears on a early Retina screen). I'd prefer to use yellow too - I just haven't found a Leica yellow filter yet in E39 (soon). I'll have a play with the scan.

I'm tempted by pyrocat - Greg gets some exquisite results, and I'll soon be out of this bottle of PMK (another 5 films) so time to so some research.

But Foma 200 has been a really lovely find, it's not that it's cheap (that does help) it's because it produces super results - and it dries totally flat, unlike the Kodak films I have used!
 
I get more shadow speed and more shadow contrast out of catechol developers with ascorbate - I formulated my own developer a long time ago that is functionally identical to Hypercat. But shadow contrast really bugs me when I’m using film.

I’d love to see how your Foma 200 in PMK negatives print.

Marty
 
Freakscene said:
I get more shadow speed and more shadow contrast out of catechol developers with ascorbate - I formulated my own developer a long time ago that is functionally identical to Hypercat. But shadow contrast really bugs me when I’m using film.

I’d love to see how your Foma 200 in PMK negatives print.

Marty
Click to expand...

Interesting.

As to printing, I can't tell you how much I want to get back to doing that. However, until the wonderful photography collective can get their work back to justify taking the administration assistant back from furlough, the darkroom is going to remain shut. First time I've ever had one to hand (10 minutes walk) and just as I got my hand back in, it had to shut down. So frustrating!
 
sorry to hear about that darkroom.

and, thanks for showing these examples. i think, next time i'll order film, there will be some fomapan 200 on the list.

cheers & best regards,
sebastian
 
Darkroom still shut, hopefully it might re-open next week when most restrictions go.

Meantime, my new supply of PMK Pyro has arrived. Having not before developed Orwo uN54 in it, I thought I'd give it at a try. Pulled from 100 to 64 and I gave it the same time as Ilford FP4 at 80 as a starting point. Lovely negatives resulted.


clearbrook.jpg
 
CharlesDAMorgan said:
Darkroom still shut, hopefully it might re-open next week when most restrictions go.

Meantime, my new supply of PMK Pyro has arrived. Having not before developed Orwo uN54 in it, I thought I'd give it at a try. Pulled from 100 to 64 and I gave it the same time as Ilford FP4 at 80 as a starting point. Lovely negatives resulted.
Click to expand...

Very nice. The clouds are quite amazing. With careful scanning and post processing you could make that transcendent.

Marty
 
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