Starting out in the RF world...

[phatnev]

...and truthfully it's all kind of scary. I have shot digital for 2-3 years now, and after close to 500,000 exposures I've finally developed the affinity for film, and manual focus, and the "feel" of the image. No doubt my 3 Nikon D200's offer much more sophisticated technology than any of the film Ms, but they are such a huge stop gap between my vision and the click that captures it. So I've pretty much decided to abandon the photography I do for others, and just shoot for me, which means I'm thinking of selling all of my SLR kit in exchange for what could be a hell of a Leica kit. So I shoot street, and thats about it, so 28/35/50 is the range I'll mostly shoot. Im thinking about basing my body purchase/s around the strength of each body in regard to the lenses I'm going to shoot on it. I'd want to say I could afford a pair of MPs with a 28/2, 35lux, 50lux, and that gorgeous 75, but alas I cant. So Im realisitcally looking at about $8,000 to spend. Can you all point me in the right direction? Is the MP worth the extra $$$ over a M6? I've handled various Ms before and I cant say Im particularly fond of any one over any of the others. I was thinkin of maybe a M2, a M6, a 50 cron, and a 35 lux. I dunno, anyone care to point me somewhere? Im literally drowning in all of this Leica glory.

 

[Uwe_Nds]

Hello and welcome to RFF! But beware: It's addictive!

Are you sure you want to sell all your gear for a rangefinder system (whatever brand)? There are some things SLRs are better at.

Now, ask yourself some questions re. rangefinders:
- do you want a built in light meter or are you happy with an external light meter or "Sunny 16"?
- do you want fully manual operation or would you prefer aperture priority as an option?
- do you want to spend all the money for a Leica system without knowing whether rangefinders are the right tools for your photography?

A great starter kit to try out a rangefinder system would be the Bessa R with 35/2.5 Color Skopar and 50/1.5 Nokton or Russian Jupiter-8 50/2.0.
The Konica Hexar RF would be an alternative in M-mount, giving you aperture priority and 1/4000 shutter speed. The M-Hexanons are a great alternative to Leica glass.
The Leica M6 (non-TTL) would be the Leica I would go for if manual operation and built in light meter would be my preference. If you require aperture priority on a Leica, then there's only the M7.

Hope that helped.

Best regards,
Uwe

 

[Uwe_Nds]

Oh, and by the way:
500000 pictures in 2-3 years, that's 450 - 680 pictures per day.
How did you do that???

 

[phatnev]

Hello and welcome to RFF! But beware: It's addictive!

Are you sure you want to sell all your gear for a rangefinder system (whatever brand)? There are some things SLRs are better at.

Now, ask yourself some questions re. rangefinders:
- do you want a built in light meter or are you happy with an external light meter or "Sunny 16"?
- do you want fully manual operation or would you prefer aperture priority as an option?
- do you want to spend all the money for a Leica system without knowing whether rangefinders are the right tools for your photography?

A great starter kit to try out a rangefinder system would be the Bessa R with 35/2.5 Color Skopar and 50/1.5 Nokton or Russian Jupiter-8 50/2.0.
The Konica Hexar RF would be an alternative in M-mount, giving you aperture priority and 1/4000 shutter speed. The M-Hexanons are a great alternative to Leica glass.
The Leica M6 (non-TTL) would be the Leica I would go for if manual operation and built in light meter would be my preference. If you require aperture priority on a Leica, then there's only the M7.

Hope that helped.

Best regards,
Uwe

I want fully manual operation, on board metering is preferable. I do want to spend the money on the system. I understand that when I sell my D200's and my 200mm f2 that I'll lose my VR and my AF-S but I really have come to a point where I know that Leica is what I want, I am absolutely ready for the challenges, and the benefits. I know with my personality I'll end up with one of every M just as soon as I can afford it. I agree that the M6 seems to be the preferred body for me, but as Im making this venture for myself, and only for myself, I kind of think buying a MP new has an appeal to it because it's "MY" camera, ya know? I want a camera thats ready for the journey yeah? If I buy a M6 I could afford a 50mm noctilux, if I buy a MP I could afford a 35 lux. I wish I could buy both, cus I would.

 

[Uwe_Nds]

I want fully manual operation, on board metering is preferable. I do want to spend the money on the system. I understand that when I sell my D200's and my 200mm f2 that I'll lose my VR and my AF-S but I really have come to a point where I know that Leica is what I want, I am absolutely ready for the challenges, and the benefits. I know with my personality I'll end up with one of every M just as soon as I can afford it. I agree that the M6 seems to be the preferred body for me, but as Im making this venture for myself, and only for myself, I kind of think buying a MP new has an appeal to it because it's "MY" camera, ya know? I want a camera thats ready for the journey yeah? If I buy a M6 I could afford a 50mm noctilux, if I buy a MP I could afford a 35 lux. I wish I could buy both, cus I would.

Alright.
So, why not the M7 Starter Set then?
http://www.leica-camera.us/photography/m_system/starter_set/

 

[phatnev]

Oh, and by the way:
500000 pictures in 2-3 years, that's 450 - 680 pictures per day.
How did you do that???

Well when I was 17 I spent 7 weeks in Europe, and thats where I learned to make photographs from a great Cornish guy I stayed with. After that I was quickly sucked into it, by the time I got to college this year I was working as a stringer for papers, and I've done weekends with 15,000 shots taken over the course of a few basketball games or a LAX tourney, or any of the likes. I just found that taking photos for other people completely demolished why I fell in love with photography in the first place, to show the world as I see it, for me, not anyone else. My digital SLRs are too obtrusive in the whole process.

 

[phatnev]

Alright.
So, why not the M7 Starter Set then?
http://www.leica-camera.us/photography/m_system/starter_set/

The same reason I wont buy the M8. Im going RF for simplicity and reliability, I dont want 1/60th and 1/125th of a second without batteries, I want a fully operational device minus a meter, so the 7 & 8 are out. I really really want a MP, but everything in my head says a M6 is wiser.

 

[Uwe_Nds]

The same reason I wont buy the M8. Im going RF for simplicity and reliability, I dont want 1/60th and 1/125th of a second without batteries, I want a fully operational device minus a meter, so the 7 & 8 are out. I really really want a MP, but everything in my head says a M6 is wiser.

If you really, really want the MP then go for it!
Buying an M6 now will leave you still wanting the MP and being unhappy for not having it.

 

[phatnev]

Knowing how much I like the 35mm focal length I cant seem to come up with a reason why a 35lux and a MP wouldnt fufill everything I want. I do hear the praise of Zeiss glass quite often, for the 50mm length I think I will look into a CZ lens, but for the 35mm I want the extra speed I think.

And if I could find a used MP I'd buy it in a heartbeat, but buying new and dinging the body doesnt phase me, Im buying it to use it, not to keep it pretty to sell in a year.

 

[HSI]

Go with an M6.
It will allow you to put money towards the real beauty of the Leica cameras.
28 Cron
35 Lux
50 Lux
Or give it a start and go with a M6 and Summicron 50.

Although, the MP is quite handsome. Its a hard choice, really.

 

[phatnev]

I dont think the bug has me by the bullocks quite yet. I want a fast 35 Leica lens. The Zeiss 50mm 1.5 is still $600 cheaper than the 'Cron, and that would cover that and wouldnt make me feel bad about the price. I think I'll end up with a 35, a 50, a MP, and another M? body within the next week or so.

And yeah, eight grand to blow as a 19 year old kinda makes me feel like I wont have much to grow into haha. Oh well, at least I'll get it right from the start. With a Leica it's never the gears fault.

 

[phatnev]

The Sonnar and the Planar are two very different lenses. Make sure that you really like the Sonnar before buying it, it gives a very "old school" kind of image until stopped down to f/5.6 - f/8.

Certainly will heed that advice. Thanks.

 

[peter_n]

There are so many variations in the Leica stuff I think you have a right to expect that you will not be able to figure it all out in the short term. The only two lenses you mention in your first post that I have experience with are the 35/1.4 ASPH and the 75/2.0 ASPH. Both are stellar lenses and are a perfect pair and apparently made for shooting street together. You really don't need any other glass with those two.

I would get the M6 initially. See how you like it. You can always get an MP later after you figure out all the permutations. Two bodies and a 35 & 75 and you have total flexibility.

 

[cmogi10]

8 thousand bucks as a 19 year old...

Wow!

Although I guess I've spent that much on camera gear.

 

[phatnev]

I mean 8 grand is a bit of cash, but considering I made all of this income through photography it doesn't make me feel so bad. So a 28,35,50,75 looks like a plausible end kit. I'd want the Ultron 1.9 for the 28, a lux for the 35, some kinda Zeiss for 50, and a Cron for the 75. So I guess as soon as I dump this DSLR stuff I'll buy me somethin pretty

 

[WoolenMammoth]

word to the wise, there is not $6K difference in experience between a beaten M3 and an old summicron 50 and a new MP and a new summicron. This is something you might think long and hard on, especially if the purpose is "for yourself". I got a beater M3 and lens because it was all I could afford at the time, thinking it would hold me over until I could afford a "real" leica and now that I can afford multiples of whatever I want I find myself completely not entertained by the idea of spending money on a new leica to satisfy that urge. The M3 far exceded my standards for quality and the experience was something I never would have dreamed about. I pick up an M6 and it offers non of that for me. Of course this is wholly personal type of thing but for someone who has never used rangefinders or leicas, you might want to curtail that more expensive is better attitude in this leica world, its really a hobbiest attitude in a huge way. If you are actually a photographer you may be shocked to discover that a cheap summitar is the lens you prefer above all others for the work you want to do.

my first leica kit cost me $750. Ive been through the nonsense of foolishly listening to the silly gear lust that permeates this world and have gone through several lenses, some priced at just silly points for 35mm still photography and still come back to the original kit that got as a holdover until I could afford an m7. Who woulda thought... I recently needed to add another camera to the stable, went and looked at an M7 and wound up with another M3.

Of course you may not be happy unless you spend all that dough and thats all good, but you might spend all that dough and then handle an M2 and wonder why you spent all that dough.

 

[thomasw_]

..... still come back to the original kit that got as a holdover until I could afford an m7. Who woulda thought... I recently needed to add another camera to the stable, went and looked at an M7 and wound up with another M3.

Of course you may not be happy unless you spend all that dough ......, but you might spend all that dough and then handle an M2 and wonder why you spent all that dough.

Excellent, very wise advice. Save your money; buy a M2 and a M3, learn to shoot with your own reasoning light meter, and get a few really good lenses: you will love the quality of your tools and have saved some cash for film, development and for life.

 

[phatnev]

But if thinking in the long term I keep this kit for the rest of my life, is 8k really a big deal? And it cant be disputed that the M2 and M3 after 40-50 years of hard livin are going to die before a new MP can it? Maybe I'll just spend some of it, and go to Europe for a while again. And again, I dont plan on buying any of this stuff new if at all possible, I do understand the value of a dollar

 

[Vics]

NOW you have a great idea! Buy an M2, M3, (users) a couple of lenses from the '60s, and, best of all, GO TO EUROPE to shoot for a while! I'm 62, and that's my plan! I already have the gear. Two years to retirement, and the wife and I are GONE! I wish I had bought the Leica M3 used in '69 when I first started. Would have saved me all that money I spent on Canon/Pentax/Minolta AF/Nikon SLR/Rollei TLR/etc.
Whatever you decide, Enjoy!

 

[Uwe_Nds]

But if thinking in the long term I keep this kit for the rest of my life, is 8k really a big deal? And it cant be disputed that the M2 and M3 after 40-50 years of hard livin are going to die before a new MP can it? Maybe I'll just spend some of it, and go to Europe for a while again. And again, I dont plan on buying any of this stuff new if at all possible, I do understand the value of a dollar

I want fully manual operation, on board metering is preferable. I do want to spend the money on the system. I understand that when I sell my D200's and my 200mm f2 that I'll lose my VR and my AF-S but I really have come to a point where I know that Leica is what I want, I am absolutely ready for the challenges, and the benefits. I know with my personality I'll end up with one of every M just as soon as I can afford it. I agree that the M6 seems to be the preferred body for me, but as Im making this venture for myself, and only for myself, I kind of think buying a MP new has an appeal to it because it's "MY" camera, ya know? I want a camera thats ready for the journey yeah? If I buy a M6 I could afford a 50mm noctilux, if I buy a MP I could afford a 35 lux. I wish I could buy both, cus I would.

What now: New or not new?



Best regards,
Uwe