State of the film market 2020

[markjwyatt]

...The issue with digital, aside from being reliant on proprietary electronic components, is also psychological - newer is better and your 3-year old camera just became “obsolete”....

For a long time, film kept improving, but you could put the improved film into older cameras. Still today as new film is introduced nothing stops you from using them in old cameras. When you buy a digital camera, you are also buying the latest sensor technology, and that will improve next year, and even much more in 10 years, and so on. If you have amazing film, you often cannot tell the difference between the results in a top 1999 camera vs. a top 1959 camera or even a top 1939 camera. Digital results can be quite different between sensor generations.

 

[KenR]

All true about the longevity of film cameras. But the plastic strips that the electronics are on are aging. The plastic/rubber backs of some cameras are turning into sticky messes and light seals are deteriorating. Not to mention that replacement parts are increasingly rare (although 3-D printing may alleviate some of those problems). So while my various cameras will undoubtedly exceed my life expectancy, it would still be nice to see some new models proving that film is not really dead.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

Konica made some of the best lenses ever. Unfortunately, try to find a Konica in fully working condiition without shelling out a hundred or so for a CLA and meter adjustment. If you want to shoot a 1980s body, the FS1 is a battery monster if it works, the FT1 is extraordinary but EVERY SINGLE ONE of 5 bodies I have tried to make into one working camera had ribbon connectors which were corroded and boards that were cracked. This is one manufacturer but all of the electromechanical cameras of the 1980s and early 90s will succumb to similar fates. Fully mechanical cameras are great but they are not built to last 100 lifetimes unless you have 100 lifetimes worth in skilled technicians to work on them. The Leicas are definitely in this group. An M3/2/4 use 12 different lubricants to be brought back to factory spec, but many folks seem to think that swishing around some naptha and running the camera dry or shooting a bit of liquid bearings or even WD40 is appropriate. Well, those are dead Leicas. Even the Nikon F and F2 need service every few decades.
There's a lot of film cameras out there, many of them working for now. Most of those that are working will fail within several years if they aren't CLAd. Even if there is interest out there, a camera that is working well is necessary to keep the new generation shooting film into the future without getting frustrated only to go back to shooting with their phones.
Meanwhile, the film market here in one of the largest cities in the USA is awful. We have 2 labs that deliver marginal results, for whatever that is worth.
I'm not a doom and gloom film is dead naysayer, I'm just a realist. And this is a thread that has been repeated at least twice in the last year or two.
Phil Forrest

 

[zuiko85]

Film “revival” does seem to really differ between locations, (and personal perceptions). Certainly out in the sticks, even before Covid restrictions, sightings of film cameras in the wild were most days only the one hanging around my neck. My particular ‘sticks’ is Lacey, Washington state, about 8 miles from the state capital. The closest place to get film here is across the street, in my mailbox. The closest processing (for B&W anyway) is my windowless laundry room, at night, (because I don’t want to try to seal around the door).
Probably spotted about 3-4 film cameras a year, and yes, mostly in the hands of young folks.
The age cutoff for young folks keeps going up, now that I’m 71.

 

[Larry Cloetta]

Konica made some of the best lenses ever. Unfortunately, try to find a Konica in fully working condiition without shelling out a hundred or so for a CLA and meter adjustment. If you want to shoot a 1980s body, the FS1 is a battery monster if it works, the FT1 is extraordinary but EVERY SINGLE ONE of 5 bodies I have tried to make into one working camera had ribbon .........
Phil Forrest

Phil,

If you want to use those nice Konica lenses, and they are nice, get an FC-1. Everybody grabs the FT1 or the FS1, because they are “extraordinary”, but pretty much none of them work any more for the reasons you mentioned. Ask me how I know. The FC1 is a sweet camera, all the automation anyone needs and has none of the problems you mention. Plus, they’re smaller. Mine have been foolproof.

 

[Larry Cloetta]

But the plastic strips that the electronics are on are aging. ......

Greta Thornbird said that the plastic bottles floating in the ocean would last for a thousand years and everyone at the U.N. cried and applauded.
Why didn’t the camera manufacturers just use that?

 

[zuiko85]

Larry, what do you think about the Konica TC? They are very reasonable in price, how do they hold up?

 

[Phil_F_NM]

For using my Konica lenses, I have a an Autoreflex T3 and T4. Both are outstanding shooters and the T3 is like a Nikon F with a fixed eye level prism.

Larry, what do you think about the Konica TC? They are very reasonable in price, how do they hold up?

The Autoreflex TC is a decent camera that is limited by its slow speeds, only going down to 1/8 second. When they work mechanically, they work well. They aren't the most robust camera but not much worse than the T4 which is a professional tool, with a full range of settings. The problem with all manual Konicas is the reliance on mercury batteries for a proper meter reading. The Konica meter is VERY sensitive to voltage and using the wrong voltage battery won't be corrected by simply adjusting the ISO. Other faults of the mechanical Konicas is that the electronics are all seeming to corrode in the last 10 years, with most of the contacts having a green goo on them, which needs to be removed before getting the meter a signal to assess if it even works, before doing the adjustment. But the TC is a great cheap body. Back in the summer of 2019, I loaned three TCs and two T3s to a local art school that needed some manual bodies for film classes.

I've wondered why we don't make tombstones out of plastics. The worst offender plastics out there have realistic lifespans well over 1000 years. The oldest tombstone for an individual who wasn't a pharaoh or king/queen is only about 600 years but all identifying marks are gone. These days the plastic out there will outlast the human race. Plastic has been found at every single place where humanity has been and many where we haven't. It's basically built in to our fish now on a near microscopic level; it's in many plant based products and also in some meats. It pervades every part of our existence, unfortunately.

Phil Forrest

 

[Ko.Fe.]

All true about the longevity of film cameras. But the plastic strips that the electronics are on are aging. The plastic/rubber backs of some cameras are turning into sticky messes and light seals are deteriorating. Not to mention that replacement parts are increasingly rare (although 3-D printing may alleviate some of those problems). So while my various cameras will undoubtedly exceed my life expectancy, it would still be nice to see some new models proving that film is not really dead.

Even if all cameras with sticky grips and missing replacement parts will be recycled, it is still going to be millions of functioning film cameras left.

And realistically speaking here is no labor left to build new and decent film camera without astonishing price tag. At this moment. One thing is to bake lomography cameras in China and another is Nikon F6.
Free and happy labor is needed for F6, M and EOS cameras. If labor is not free, nor happy, but cheap it is called Zenorki.

 

[Larry Cloetta]

Larry, what do you think about the Konica TC? They are very reasonable in price, how do they hold up?

I don’t know. Not sure if you meant the Autoreflex TC or the later TC-X, which was their last model. But either way, I haven’t had either one of those. People tended to not like the TC-X as well as earlier models, or so I’ve heard, but I don’t have any personal experience.

 

[zuiko85]

Thanks Larry, AutorflexTC preferred, Phil F NM also responded (thanks Phil)
I believe the AR TC is a full mechanical camera and the battery is just for the meter.
Knew the T3 and T4 were sturdy cameras, just liked the more compact size of the TC.
When I sold cameras in the 70’s the Konica brand was a ‘sleeper’. My chosen platform was the OM system, but those in the know knew that Hexanon lenses were top notch and gave up nothing to Nikors or Rokkors on Takumars either.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

The T4 is the same size as the TC. Just heavier as I believe there is a little more metal inside the higher end camera. That said, I wouldn't hesitate to use a TC for most shooting because I don't go below 1/8 usually. I think I paid maybe $11 for my most expensive TCs. At least two of them were given to me.
Phil Forrest

 

[kiemchacsu]

I dont know how does the system of Adorama works,

Would they keep the same price when you placed the (back)order when they have films in stock?
Or,

They will adjust the price accordingly if any?

I ordered a bunch of Fuji Superia 400 three packs from Adorama in October. It was back ordered but they only charge when the order is filled. It arrived in early December.

 

[nickthetasmaniac]

I do think the surge in used gear prices has reached a plateau.

I don't think that's true, I just think the surge has moved around.

Ie. stuff like the Contax T2/3 and Mju went bonkers a few years ago, but now seem to have plateaued. But now we have stuff like Minolta SLR's, Pentax M42 SLR's, Nikon pro SLR's (F2/3/4/5) having their own little surge. A Spotmatic F with a handful of average Takumar's recently sold for $650aud on one of the Australian groups. Two years ago that would have been no more than $150...

 

[alecto]

Recently pulled a Noritsu minilab out of storage and started a lab with a couple of guys. In 4 months its turned into my full time job - doing 150+ rolls some days. Currently have issues getting cheap colour neg film, we’ve got a lot of Kodak Colorplus on back order with a wholesaler who say they have a back order with Kodak for over 100,000 rolls. This is in the UK and compared to 10 years ago when our Noritsu was last in action the demand has increased dramatically.

 

[Lukesaurus]

@alecto , starting with minute 28 a Kodak rep talks about the difficulties they had in 2020 with getting film in the hands of consumers . He also talks about Kodak's market share for color films increasing these past years .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwdwdcOG4QU

 

[agentlossing]

Recently pulled a Noritsu minilab out of storage and started a lab with a couple of guys. In 4 months its turned into my full time job - doing 150+ rolls some days. Currently have issues getting cheap colour neg film, we’ve got a lot of Kodak Colorplus on back order with a wholesaler who say they have a back order with Kodak for over 100,000 rolls. This is in the UK and compared to 10 years ago when our Noritsu was last in action the demand has increased dramatically.

That's great, I have wondered how many of those labs are still kicking around in closets and warehouses. Once undervalued, I can imagine that they are suddenly more important again.

 

[das]

Looks like film's comeback is not some kind of "temporary fad" as so many have tried to argue. 🙂.

 

[jsrockit]

Looks like film's comeback is not some kind of "temporary fad" as so many have tried to argue. 🙂.

But then again, it isn't exactly mainstream and most likely never will be... I think that was the point more than it being a fad. It's a good time for photography though (technically speaking). You can currently use all of the tools that have existed since its birth and that is a wider range than ever.

 

[BWF]

I dont know how does the system of Adorama works,

Would they keep the same price when you placed the (back)order when they have films in stock?
Or,

They will adjust the price accordingly if any?

No adjustment to price. I paid $13.99 per 3 pack. I don’t know how it works either 😀