Stiff Kiev 4a film rewind

[physiognomy]

Hi everyone,

I recently took my Kiev 4a (63XXXXXX) on a trip to Australia and while it sat a little too much in my camera bag (that damn automatic SLR!) I did get to shoot some test shots with both the original Jupiter 8 and a Helios-103 I bought to compare... Unfortunately I haven't had time nor the money to develop the small mountain of film I shot, but I do have a question to ask of you learned folk...

Is it common-place with these cameras for the film rewind to be painfully stiff??? I am still pretty unfamiliar with this camera, but I believe I was doing the right thing when holding in the rewind button on the bottom of the body while simultaneously turning the rewind knob in the direction of the arrow? After loosing all but the most tender layers of skin I resorted to fumbling with leather gloves until the whole roll was wound back in... Was I doing something wrong?

I know this is probably one of those cases where I need some practice, but after all the fiddling with (bottom) loading the film, I was a little surprised to find I had a fight on my hands in order to rewind!

Cheers!

 

[ErnestoJL]

First of all, I suspect that something wrong is inside the camera, just because the film should be rewound with not so much effort (at least the same as in many other cameras). Perhaps the release button mechanism inside the sprocket wheel is broken or it is blocked with something else. Do not try to use brute force unless you want something worse than it is today.

I would suggest to bring some kind of changing bag. If you don´t have such, you can go to your bedroom, and in total darkness place the camera under the bed coat (try the thickest you may find, if possible use several layers of thick dark fabric) and opening the camera release the film from the taking reel, take the roll out and rewind it manually. Once its done, check the camera carefully for small broken pieces of metal, or something that can prevent the normal movement of parts. If nothing is found, bring the camera to a repair shop, or look for information at Kiev Survival Site if you´re eager to do it by yourself.

Good luck.
Ernesto

 

[brians]

physiognomy, I have the same kind of struggle with my Zorki 4. I get blisters from trying to wind my film advance sprocket (probably because it is directly connected to the shutter speeds), but I hyst got it too. I'm not really sure if it's supposed to be so stiff, but I hope this isn't the case. Oh, it took me about 5 minutes trying to wind my film back in.... augh!

Any other RFFers have any input on this?

 

[RichardS]

Did you pull up the rewind wheel? That makes it easier and more convenient to turn. I don't think mine is as hard to turn as you say yours is so there may be a problem with yours.

Dick

 

[Nick R.]

The rewind on my 4a is stiff also. I had to pause twice while rewinding yesterday to give my fingers a rest.

 

[ErnestoJL]

As smaller as the rewind knob is, the higher torque you must exert to rewind film properly. That´s why almost all cameras have a rewind crank or lever instead of just a small knob.
I do recognize, my Kiev is not an exception, its a bit stiff but never that stiff so to destroy my fingerprints! Thats why the design of the last models included a rewind crank instead of the tiny knob of earlier models. Extending the knob outwards as pointed by Dick is helpfull as it makes it easier to handle, but yours....mmmmm seem to be damn stiff... is no good!
In some cameras fitted with a short lever, sometimes I had to shake the camera a little and release the tension on the film, to "loose" the film, or move the rewind lever a little back and forth. This usually helps.
The Contax/Kiev require that you keep the button firmly pressed all the time. It has no detent to keep it in. Failing to do so, may lead to some weird problems I guess.
With the camera open, check with your fingers if there are some stiff points turning the toothed sprocket backwards. Check also if there is not too much play of the vertical position of the sprocket. This shouldn´t be more than about 0.2 mm in each direction.
Hope this helps!
Ernesto.

 

[Mike Kovacs]

Take the back off, use something blunt pointed to press the shaft that the rewind button presses when the back is in place. Does the sprocket turn freely?

If so, how tight does the rewind knob feel with no film in there? Its easy to disassemble the rewind knob on a 4A to clean and lightly regrease the rewind shaft. With the film reminder, its probably easiest to jam the forks then turn the knob the wrong way. The rewind forks are threaded into the shaft, should come free (with washers), then you should be able to pull the rewind shaft up from the top of the camera. (going purely by memory here)

 

[physiognomy]

Ahh... The rewind knob pulls up ! ! ! Genius!

Ahh... The rewind knob pulls up ! ! ! Genius!

Hi Richard,

Well, you solved one problem for me. Thanks !!! I feel a little stupid not knowing about the rewind knob coming up.... When I actually had the manual in front of me I was concentrating on loading the film and must have put it down before I got to the rewinding section. Oh, well... At least I have so far managed to heed the warnings about winding on before changing shutter speeds...

My rewind knob pulls up smoothly and I think this will greatly help in my struggle to wind the film back in... I have a feeling my problem is more with the film remaining straight and staying evenly on the sprockets (possibly a result of my first ill attempts at loading the film). From what I can see the mechanism all seems to be working perfectly without film... After 40-odd years of service (the light meter is still 'accurate' on the thing!) I am suspicious that my problems lie with the user rather than the camera?

Cheers!

Did you pull up the rewind wheel? That makes it easier and more convenient to turn. I don't think mine is as hard to turn as you say yours is so there may be a problem with yours.

Dick

 

[physiognomy]

Thanks!

Thanks!

Hi Ernesto,

Thanks for your advice! I knew that the rewind probably shouldn't be so stiff that it caused damage to my fingers... Hopefully now with the knob pulled up (thanks again Dick!) and another go at loading the film correctly I should have less trouble...

Like I said in my reply to Dick I found no problems in the mechanism without film. Thanks for giving me some pointers on what to check! There is virtually no vertical play in the sprockets and everything turns smoothly as it should when there is no film.

I think my next move is to load it up with film again and see how the rewind goes this time!

Cheers!

As smaller as the rewind knob is, the higher torque you must exert to rewind film properly. That´s why almost all cameras have a rewind crank or lever instead of just a small knob.
I do recognize, my Kiev is not an exception, its a bit stiff but never that stiff so to destroy my fingerprints! Thats why the design of the last models included a rewind crank instead of the tiny knob of earlier models. Extending the knob outwards as pointed by Dick is helpfull as it makes it easier to handle, but yours....mmmmm seem to be damn stiff... is no good!
In some cameras fitted with a short lever, sometimes I had to shake the camera a little and release the tension on the film, to "loose" the film, or move the rewind lever a little back and forth. This usually helps.
The Contax/Kiev require that you keep the button firmly pressed all the time. It has no detent to keep it in. Failing to do so, may lead to some weird problems I guess.
With the camera open, check with your fingers if there are some stiff points turning the toothed sprocket backwards. Check also if there is not too much play of the vertical position of the sprocket. This shouldn´t be more than about 0.2 mm in each direction.
Hope this helps!
Ernesto.

 

[physiognomy]

Thanks for the advice!

Thanks for the advice!

Hey Mike,

Thanks for the testing advice! I really appreciate you helping out with what problems to look for in the mechanism... As I said, everything moves as it should without film, so I think the problem may actually have been my poor film loading technique??? I'll give it another go today and see how the rewind goes this time!

Cheers!

Take the back off, use something blunt pointed to press the shaft that the rewind button presses when the back is in place. Does the sprocket turn freely?

If so, how tight does the rewind knob feel with no film in there? Its easy to disassemble the rewind knob on a 4A to clean and lightly regrease the rewind shaft. With the film reminder, its probably easiest to jam the forks then turn the knob the wrong way. The rewind forks are threaded into the shaft, should come free (with washers), then you should be able to pull the rewind shaft up from the top of the camera. (going purely by memory here)

 

[Mike Kovacs]

I guess you have a Kiev 4 (metered version) not the 4A (unmetered version)? Yes, of course you need to lift the knob on the 4 (and on the Contax IIIa, Contaflex and other Zeiss cameras from which this knob was copied from)