giellaleafapmu
Well-known
I don't think all cameras need FF, of course it is nice but I don't find it to be the what I miss and I can of course use a camera without a VF but I don't understand the design given that it was supposed to be a niche product aimed at "real" photographers. Anyway, just to answer the question: in the mean time I use all the other cameras I have, they are already too many and need to go out for a stroll regularly
By the way, finally the gxr went down enough so I bough that with 24-70 and 28mm modules, money permitting soon I will also get the M-module and be happy with that, I don't think the few mm more will make the camera too big, nor that the few Mpx difference will really matter for what it is meant to be used and I could buy body and both modules and still save a few quids, plus if I really want I can put an EVF, unlike with the gr and I can give new life to some Leitz glass which lies in the bottom of a drawer too often.
The part about not making "concessions" to other cameras I don't understand, I even started a thread sometimes saying that I like essentially any kind of camera (not any camera) and I find some of the Sony offerings very nice, just I cannot afford to buy all possible cameras out there otherwise probably I would also have at least an RX1 and a A99...but let be happy with what we have.
GLF
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
I don't think all cameras need FF, of course it is nice but I don't find it to be the what I miss and I can of course use a camera without a VF but I don't understand the design given that it was supposed to be a niche product aimed at "real" photographers. Anyway, just to answer the question: in the mean time I use all the other cameras I have, they are already too many and need to go out for a stroll regularly
By the way, finally the gxr went down enough so I bough that with 24-70 and 28mm modules, money permitting soon I will also get the M-module and be happy with that, I don't think the few mm more will make the camera too big, nor that the few Mpx difference will really matter for what it is meant to be used and I could buy body and both modules and still save a few quids, plus if I really want I can put an EVF, unlike with the gr and I can give new life to some Leitz glass which lies in the bottom of a drawer too often.
The part about not making "concessions" to other cameras I don't understand, I even started a thread sometimes saying that I like essentially any kind of camera (not any camera) and I find some of the Sony offerings very nice, just I cannot afford to buy all possible cameras out there otherwise probably I would also have at least an RX1 and a A99...but let be happy with what we have.
GLF
That's okay if you don't understand why I prefer the Ricoh GR compared to any other cameras, that's why different camera makers are still making money, right?
Just like you said, be happy with what we have.
giellaleafapmu
Well-known
That's okay if you don't understand why I prefer the Ricoh GR compared to any other cameras, that's why different camera makers are still making money, right?
Just like you said, be happy with what we have.
Ah, no, maybe I misunderstood, I thought you said that you didn't care about any other camera as a general statement I guess that any of us has a favorite camera, at least for a certain type of work.
GLF
MikeAUS
Well-known
No. The IQ of the GR is better - doesn't blow highlights as easy for 1 - however it's not a big difference. Maybe 10%. Whereas the Fuji XE1 the IQ is way better than the RX100 and of course the GR. I am really starting to appreciate the Fuji XE1. I took out the GR again yesterday. It was a fail again. It's too slow in the street - yes I know about snap. But snap doesn't always work well and is a compromise to me. I think the fast operation of the RX100 'makes' so many good photos that I took it for granted. So for me the GR cannot 'capture' moments as well as the RX100.
GaryLH
Veteran
Well got my gr in the mail yesterday.. Been setting things up. Even though I ave a gxr, there are certain things that were different enough that I had to go read the manual .
Have only shot some test shots to get a handle on what the new features are all about and to setup my configs the way I want them.
First off, Ricoh did a good job of design this lens. At least w/ my copy (ymmv), at f2.8, it looks better than the Fuji 18f2 @ 2.8, by between f4-5.6 they look pretty close.
Overall sensor iq on first blush looks to go to Fuji xtran for better dynamic range handling and high iso support. Nothing beats the dp1m in terms of being able to resolve and the film like look.. W/ its known high iso issues aside. But it won't fit in my pocket like a rx100 or gr does.
What I like:
- I love the way I can control the level of noise being applied at three different strengths and iso ranges.
- auto ND
- the level of AE bracket control
- essentially same size as the rx100 except about an inch or so longer.
- lens already pretty good wide open, stop down a bit and it is sharp
- LCD is as good as the rx100
- I can dedicate a function button to crop 35
- all my dp Merrill batteries work on this camera
- appears to have really good dof, I setup a f8 hyper focal config.. If the green bar is truly a good indicator of the dof, we are talking about focus pt around slight over 3m point. The green bar goes from around 1m to infinity.
What I don't like
- low light af performance sucks worst then any Fuji (btw i always turnoff the focus assist af on all my cameras). W/ the latest fw update from Fuji, the gr vs xe1, I can't tell any clear winner in terms of af speed in bright sunlight.
- instruction book does not appear to discuss interaction related issues, for example, auto-iso high functionality cannot be used in conjunction w/ dynamic range functionality.
I have heard from reading various threads on different blogs and forums, there are people u do not like the look of the Ricoh files. Some say not as punchy as the Nikon Coolpix A. My feeling about this is low contrast files from the Ricoh are just fine. Imho, I find that they have more tonal information in them that can be used w/ your photo sw. U can always punch up things in the sw, but if the camera is producing images w/ too much punchiness, chances are it does not have the tonal range that it could. I actually set my Fuji up with minus numbers for noise, highlight, etc, to get more tonal info.
Anyway, it will be a while before I can start posting any pictures.
Gary
. Have only shot some test shots to get a handle on what the new features are all about and to setup my configs the way I want them.
First off, Ricoh did a good job of design this lens. At least w/ my copy (ymmv), at f2.8, it looks better than the Fuji 18f2 @ 2.8, by between f4-5.6 they look pretty close.
Overall sensor iq on first blush looks to go to Fuji xtran for better dynamic range handling and high iso support. Nothing beats the dp1m in terms of being able to resolve and the film like look.. W/ its known high iso issues aside. But it won't fit in my pocket like a rx100 or gr does.
What I like:
- I love the way I can control the level of noise being applied at three different strengths and iso ranges.
- auto ND
- the level of AE bracket control
- essentially same size as the rx100 except about an inch or so longer.
- lens already pretty good wide open, stop down a bit and it is sharp
- LCD is as good as the rx100
- I can dedicate a function button to crop 35
- all my dp Merrill batteries work on this camera
- appears to have really good dof, I setup a f8 hyper focal config.. If the green bar is truly a good indicator of the dof, we are talking about focus pt around slight over 3m point. The green bar goes from around 1m to infinity.
What I don't like
- low light af performance sucks worst then any Fuji (btw i always turnoff the focus assist af on all my cameras). W/ the latest fw update from Fuji, the gr vs xe1, I can't tell any clear winner in terms of af speed in bright sunlight.
- instruction book does not appear to discuss interaction related issues, for example, auto-iso high functionality cannot be used in conjunction w/ dynamic range functionality.
I have heard from reading various threads on different blogs and forums, there are people u do not like the look of the Ricoh files. Some say not as punchy as the Nikon Coolpix A. My feeling about this is low contrast files from the Ricoh are just fine. Imho, I find that they have more tonal information in them that can be used w/ your photo sw. U can always punch up things in the sw, but if the camera is producing images w/ too much punchiness, chances are it does not have the tonal range that it could. I actually set my Fuji up with minus numbers for noise, highlight, etc, to get more tonal info.
Anyway, it will be a while before I can start posting any pictures.
Gary
GaryLH
Veteran
So how bad is gr low light af?
So how bad is gr low light af?
Well just for the heck of it...
Tonight, I decided to do a quick and dirty test by dimming the light to around what I was having problems w/ getting af lock on my sd1m at the Monterey Aquarium. Gr was reading 1/15th second at f2.8, iso 8000
- Ricoh gr - extremely slow to lock.. Hunts around before it will lock.. Maybe double the time of the Fuji xe1 sometimes even if I never moved it from the original focus area.
- Sony rx100 - lock fairly fast
- Fuji x100 - will not lock - I have had success in past f2.8 1/30 at iso 3200
- Sigma sd1m - will not lock - never plan to use a foveon base camera for such low light.
- Sigma dp1m - will not lock - same not intended for such low light, iso 1600-3200 is max I would ever use these cameras at and they would be monochrome.
- Olympus omd em5 - af lock.. Fairly fast.. Sometimes slower then the rx100, but mostly faster..
- Fuji xe1 - af lock, slower then em5 or rx100, but not by much.
So GR at least will lock af focus, while the Sigma will not along w/ the x100. On the other hand I expect the x100s to be at least as good as the xe1 if not better.
W/ any luck, it is a fw fix away, since the xe1 used to hunt for a long time before it locked.. W/ latest update, it is actually doing pretty well IMHO.
Looking at the noise issues I c in my shots starting around iso 800 on the rx100, the gr is doing about the same around iso 4000 or so..
Gary
So how bad is gr low light af?
Well just for the heck of it...
Tonight, I decided to do a quick and dirty test by dimming the light to around what I was having problems w/ getting af lock on my sd1m at the Monterey Aquarium. Gr was reading 1/15th second at f2.8, iso 8000
- Ricoh gr - extremely slow to lock.. Hunts around before it will lock.. Maybe double the time of the Fuji xe1 sometimes even if I never moved it from the original focus area.
- Sony rx100 - lock fairly fast
- Fuji x100 - will not lock - I have had success in past f2.8 1/30 at iso 3200
- Sigma sd1m - will not lock - never plan to use a foveon base camera for such low light.
- Sigma dp1m - will not lock - same not intended for such low light, iso 1600-3200 is max I would ever use these cameras at and they would be monochrome.
- Olympus omd em5 - af lock.. Fairly fast.. Sometimes slower then the rx100, but mostly faster..
- Fuji xe1 - af lock, slower then em5 or rx100, but not by much.
So GR at least will lock af focus, while the Sigma will not along w/ the x100. On the other hand I expect the x100s to be at least as good as the xe1 if not better.
W/ any luck, it is a fw fix away, since the xe1 used to hunt for a long time before it locked.. W/ latest update, it is actually doing pretty well IMHO.
Looking at the noise issues I c in my shots starting around iso 800 on the rx100, the gr is doing about the same around iso 4000 or so..
Gary
aleksanderpolo
Established
Gary, I found that the low light AF performance of GR is highly dependent on the target you are trying to lock on to. With a brighter surface (but not one without any contrast) there is not much hunting. But try to lock onto something dark (such as someone's eye, or a dark surface) it will enter into a slow AF mode and hunt forever.
GaryLH
Veteran
I know.. I am used to doing the same from using the Fuji xp1/xe1 family of cameras.
I pointed all the cameras to the same object and location in this test using the same lighting condition. The main purpose was to show how the gr did compared to my other cameras.
The camera I was using at the Monterey aquarium before the lens died on me was the xe1. It was fine up to about 1/3 way thru the place, then I had to switch over to my sd1m, which is not the camera of choice here. This is what gave me the idea of shooting a controlled dim room test.
It is very similar to the issues that originally were part of the Fuji x family problems w/ focusing in low light, which they did a retry good job of fixing w/ firmware updates over time. Hopefully, Ricoh can do the same.
I forgot to mention, none of my cameras in this test have their af assist light active. I hate those assist lights, they tell everyone in a dim room what the object of your shot is.
Gary
GaryLH
Veteran
and the Fujis make the GR seem noisy.
Yeah..that is for sure.
I tried shooting some iso 6400 and 12800 images last night. Lets say that they are usable, but there is a lot of what I think is called chroma noise. The Fuji looks better even though I have noise configured to minus two. I ended up running dfin2 thru to eliminate the worst of the noise, then did a sep2 on it to convert to b&w. to me, the b&w images look better then the color ones, once u get past around 3200 iso. It is still better then what I was seeing from the rx100 by iso 3200.
I noticed that Aperture when it is generating the preview image, just before it is complete, on the gr ones I am seeing more artifacts then the Fuji. After the review is generated, can't tell the difference. I wonder if it is the built in raw image tools correcting for known issues with the sensors whether Fuji, Ricoh or anyone else.
Anyway at end of the day, the xe1 is not small enough to just put in my pants pocket like the rx100 or the gr. just got to know what the limitations are..
Gary
Archiver
Veteran
Extremely happy with my purchase. The GRD III was a backup camera that I carried everywhere, but the GR is a primary camera due to the excellent image quality, small size and responsiveness. It's a big step up from the GRD in so many important ways.
I never use the 35mm crop mode; only raw, and I crop in post.
LCD in bright sunlight is quite visible.
High ISO performance is great, in line with aps-c DSLR's. Whatever noise is present at ISO 3200 cleans up really well in Lightroom.
markwatts
Mark Watts
My first ricoh. I am a Nikon man from S2 to D700. My advice, if you can spend the money, buy this camera. It is fabulous to have with you.
agoglanian
Reconnected.
I think the GR is the ultimate travel camera and I absolutely love mine.
It's usually in my camera bag at all times even if I don't need it. I love how discreet and quiet it is, allowing me to get FAR closer to subjects than any of my other cameras, the high ISO is very usable up to 3200-6400 but would potentially benefit from some kind of IS for the really low light stuff. Overall I love the darn thing. It just makes me smile.
Colosseum. by Abram Goglanian, on Flickr
It's usually in my camera bag at all times even if I don't need it. I love how discreet and quiet it is, allowing me to get FAR closer to subjects than any of my other cameras, the high ISO is very usable up to 3200-6400 but would potentially benefit from some kind of IS for the really low light stuff. Overall I love the darn thing. It just makes me smile.
Colosseum. by Abram Goglanian, on Flickr
stompyq
Well-known
Just got mine yesterday. I've used Johns, GR a few times but not extensively so was excited but didn't really know what to expect on a extended outing. Well I took it out last night and have to say the thing is freaking awesome. A little noisy for my taste at ISO 6400 and beyond but so incredibly responsive. I'am still getting the hang of the camera but think I finally have what I've been looking for to partner my Pentax 6x7. Oh and it's weirdly liberating to go out shooting with a camera in your jeans pocket, phone, keys and wallet. Overall very happy (at least for the time being)
Pramodh, you'll sell it in a few weeks..
GaryLH
Veteran
Thanks everyone for posting your pictures from the gr...
Here is one if my recent shots.. I most likely would never have gotten the shot if it were not for the fact te Ricoh was in my pocket.
Taken from the passenger seat of my wife's car on Hwy 24 to Walnut Creek. Cropped out the dashboard. Mt Diablo is at the bottom of shot. Converted to BW using SEP2.
Gary
Here is one if my recent shots.. I most likely would never have gotten the shot if it were not for the fact te Ricoh was in my pocket.
Taken from the passenger seat of my wife's car on Hwy 24 to Walnut Creek. Cropped out the dashboard. Mt Diablo is at the bottom of shot. Converted to BW using SEP2.
Gary