Strange 'Photo Plus' results...

@ x-ray and magus:

This may sound stupid, but I'm a little confused now.

Are you saying it's back to Solms than?

Or keep the lenscap on while rewinding when the leaver did not completely advance after the last picture?

I'm just starting to make plans to use the camera for several different projects...

5 to 6 weeks?!? :bang:
 
If it truly is the shutter not capping when the last frame isn't fully advanced, why could you not rewind a bit then complete the advance stroke and finish the rewind? Granted, I'm an M2-er and have never seen this in my cameras, ever.
 
If you're willing to replace the lens cap each time you rewind film then that's your choice but I want the camera to function as it should. $3500 is too much for a camera to begin with and to settle for a fix like putting the cap on for rewind is unacceptable in my book. I ruined a roll of images from a documentary shoot that I can't replace and can't risk my work on camera problems. Before I risk the loss of important images I'll sell the leicas and buy more Zeiss bodies.

On important shoots I carry 4 bodies and 2 sets of lenses but something like this you don't know when it happens untill too late. I normally carry 3 MP's and a M6 or ZI and hope the other two MP's don't develope the same problem. I've used M leicas for 40 years but I'm not married to them and will dump them like a hot rock if they start giving problems. The majority of my documentary work can't be reshot.

If your camera is under warranty then it's back to leica for how ever many weeks they want to keep it. Another bitch of mine is the total lack of professional service like Canons CPS and Nikons NPS service. The very few problems that I've had with my canons have gone back to cps (canon professional service) and have been back in my hands within 3 days without any problems. The one repair that took longer Canon provided a new 1Ds body untill it was repaired, at no charge. Also both Nikon and Canon will loan free of charge ,except shipping, any of their pro lenses and bodies for an extended period to complete a job. If you need a 600mm f4 or 14mm or whatever for two weeks up to three loans on the same item they will loan it free of charge. Leica could learn a little from these guys and tool up for pro service if they want pros to use their equipment. If I only had one or two bodies and my new $3500 MP failed and it was going to take 4-5 weeks for repair given there's no loaner service and I didn't have a safe full of equipment as backup I would be pissed big time.
 
spyder2000 said:
If it truly is the shutter not capping when the last frame isn't fully advanced, why could you not rewind a bit then complete the advance stroke and finish the rewind? Granted, I'm an M2-er and have never seen this in my cameras, ever.
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Why should you have to do this? I't should cap properly for $3,500!!

I still own a M2 that I've had for many years and never had a failure from a M2, 3, 4, 4-2 or 4P other than a self timer spring in my DS M3 in the 70's and RF alignments 3 times. That's darn good for a couple dozen cameras that have had 10,000 + rolls shot through them.

My more recent M lenses and bodies have given more trouble than all the total of 35mm cameras that I've owned in over 40 years.
 
Thanks x-ray.

I just started in photography, and €3640 (euro!!!) is an awfull lot of money for me. And yes, the camera should function without any problem. So I'll send it in for warrenty repair after just 14 rolls...

My old Contax G's will have to do as back-up, though I hate the auto focus and the harsh glass...

Thanks for your time, and I hope your MP returns sooner than expected!

Cheers,

Peter
 
Indeed, since the edges of the film are ok, the shutter must be to blame.... Really disheartening that Leica can't get it right, OTOH, reassuring (to the REST of us) that it's not due to x-ray damage, the great unknown of traveling with film today. I travel all over the world with film , a lot, and have never had x-rays damage my film. But you hear stories....
 
Peter G1G2 said:
Thanks x-ray.

I just started in photography, and €3640 (euro!!!) is an awfull lot of money for me. And yes, the camera should function without any problem. So I'll send it in for warrenty repair after just 14 rolls...

My old Contax G's will have to do as back-up, though I hate the auto focus and the harsh glass...

Thanks for your time, and I hope your MP returns sooner than expected!

Cheers,

Peter
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Good luck and hope they get it fixed. My faith in leica getting my problem fixed is only 50/50 on the first try and will the problem return. Leica will now have to prove themselves.

I've traveled a great deal with large quantities of film over the years and had it run over and over through the x-ray system and never had any suggestion of fog.
 
I am the other member who had this happen on my MP. It happened exactly like your images. I did send the MP in for repair (under warranty) with a very lengthy description of exactly what the problem was. It worked fine for about two years, but it happened again earlier this summer. Frankly, my equipment has spent so much time in New Jersey (all models, lenses, cameras, digital backs etc), that I really can't stand sending it in again. Leica is great when it works, but they have some serious serious quality control issues. It's a shame.

Since this problem is so easily solved by not advancing to the 37th or 38th frame, or if you do, by putting a cap on, I am just ignoring it until next time it needs a CLA (which will probably be with DAG, not Leica).
 
I'm with you Stuart! I've had 4 M lenses including my asph summilux 50 and 90 apo asph in for mechanical issues and the 50 is still in.
 
I am an incredible Leica customer. I have spent tons of money with them in the past, but I have had what I feel is an inordinate amount of failures. The DMR is the quintessential example. Gorgeous when it works, but it failed multiple times. The first one developed a line of pixels showing up in every image after only 1000 shots. That one took 4 months to fix (sending from Japan where I was living to Germany, and then from there to the US where I was by the time they were done), when I got it back, within 15 minutes it exhibited the same problem but in a different place. They replaced it, and the replacement had extremely high noise at higher ISO's and a weird noise pattern (not present in the other or in a demo DMR). They fixed that and it was fine. But while shooting with it this past week (in a helicopter no less), it got out of sync with the camera and simply stopped taking photos. I needed to remove the dmr from the camera and put it back on to reset it and even then it only worked when I used manual advance.
Add to this the MP which failed twice for the shutter issue, and the fact that the MP had to go back after a year because of a ton of dust in the viewfinder and things get crazy. This is not including of course the six months that the 50/1.4 ASPH spent at Leica being fixed for being super tight, getting coded, coming back being coded super tight again, and then fixing it for being too tight the second time. Not to mention the several months that the other lenses spent getting coded. Of course, my M8 is only a few months old, but it has never read coded lenses properly...of six coded lenses, only 2 show up on a regular basis. The others do not show up ever. And of course, the vertical alignment is not properly set.

It's a travesty, frankly. But I keep buying...god only knows why. I guess it is the results when they work. I cannot deny that they are a joy to work with and produce absolutely superior results, but they only work about 60% of the time. It is an absolute shame.
 
Stuart I feel your pain. The MP is the first body failure but the camera is an a la carte and was received april last year. it came from the factory with a loose ISO dial and now the shutter. My big problems have been 4 lenses with wear in the 35 summicron v4 focusing mount to the point the lens grouping wobbled in the focusing mount, binding in the focusing mount on the 50 tadded summocron abd 90 apo asph and noe the 50 asph summilux won't focus to infinity. Funny but no problems out of my Zeiss and CV lens sets and no problems with my ZI. The MP that's in the shop has my signature on the back so I don't think there's any chance of selling it but the other two could be sold if I have the same problems. Knowing what I know today and I've used Leicas extensively for 40 years, I would buy ZI bodies and Zeiss and CV lenses. I can certainly say after all this time using quality Leica equipment I'm very disappointed in the lack of quality just to save a few dollars on production. It's obvious to me that leica is living on their past reputation and not the current quality or lack of.

I will also say I don't think there will be any new leica gear purchased by me in the future.
 
I'm curious about one thing from the two of you that have had failures in the MP. I keep a Leicavit on each of my MP's and use it about 30% of the time. Do you use a Leicavit and if so do you think it contributed to the problem? I'm wondering if the Leicavit winds the shutter harder than a wind lever stroke.
 
I suspect there is additional strain when hitting the 36-1/2 frame mark but I'm interested in whether this was a factor in the other two cases. I used a motor on my M6 for years and never have had the first problem.

Funny the M6 is looked on as one of the less well built machines and the MP is regarded as the ultimate.

I've tried to remember how many M bodies and lenses I've had over the years and would estimate over 50 lenses and 16-18 bodies. The only issues with bodies were three times I needed the RF aligned which was no big deal and a self timer spring in my first 1955 M3 and my CL that went back to the shop under warranty two or three times. I've always kept multiple M bodies and worked them hard over the past 40 years. I think the first 3 bidies that I had were used harder than any with an estimated total of over 10,000 rolls through them with no problems.

The problem MP has had only a few hundred rolls through it which is nothing even for a cheap slr.
 
x-ray said:
I'm curious about one thing from the two of you that have had failures in the MP. I keep a Leicavit on each of my MP's and use it about 30% of the time. Do you use a Leicavit and if so do you think it contributed to the problem? I'm wondering if the Leicavit winds the shutter harder than a wind lever stroke.
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No, x-ray, no Leicavit was used in my case. And it happened more than once that after the last shot I could only rewind halfway. As you say, it seems to be a random problem.

BTW is your 'problem MP' also an a la carte, like mine?

Peter
 
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No, I don't use a Leicavit on mine. My MP was not a la carte...in fact, it was one of the earliest ones purchased in September 2003...it has the M6 style ISO dial, which I am quite happy about as it seems much more robust than the current one.
 
I would have thought the a la carte cameras would receive a little more care in assembly but guess not. Silly me what did I expect for $3,500.
 
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