street photography confrontation

I don't know guys, but something here don't make sense. Perhaps several things.

a) You are supposed to be grown photographers.

b) You are supposed to use silent cameras, not enabling your subject hear the
click - and this sound makes a huge difference as your field of manoeuvre in the erratic case of confrontation.

b-2) You are supposed to complement the silent shutter release, with a non-visual pressing of the shutter knob, using the joint instead of the tip of your finger.

b-3) There is a difference between your subject looking you pointing your camera towards him and your subject actually hearing your "click" and seeing the shutter button being depressed.

c) You are not distinguishing between someone who presents no danger, and someone dangerous, you should haven't selected him in first place.

d) In front of someone dangerous you propose to behave yourselves as the Good Sammaritan telling nothing else but "the truth". The truth there is that you are in physical danger.

e) In a non-dangerous situation you can play the Good Sammaritan and present your credentials to confuse and avoid an embarrasment. But a dangerous situation is something totally different. Identifying yourself for truth of for lie puts you on the defensive, giving grounds for your enemy to advance over you. Yes, in a dangerous situation you are at war - so start thinking accordingly.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
antiquark said:
How about this response:
"No speak english!"

Or Garry Winogrand's response:
"I'm not taking pictures of you, I'm taking pictures of myself!"
Click to expand...


or

Q:"Why are you taking my picture?"

GW: "They aren't YOUR pictures. They are MY pictures!"
 
Maybe it's time for a poll.

The OP hasn't had any trouble, but worries in case he might get some.

The questions would be:

Assuming a reasonable length of experience (5 years/100 rolls, whatever you like) have you had:

No grief at all

Polite inquiries/requests not to take pictures

Aggressive requests not to take pictures

Had to run

I've been doing it 40 years and had to run (or at least walk quickly) fewer than half a dozen times, and I've had maybe ten aggressive requests and twice as many polite requests/inquiries.

Cheers,

R.
 
Carrying a camera in certain parts of HK and shooting does present a few hazards in sunny Hong Kong... certainly had the experience yesterday of both extremes where one lady was happy to pose and one guy followed me out of the dark alley I was shooting in.... resulting in me disappearing around the corner sharpish!

Good definitely outweighing the bad... but thank goodness for telephoto and wides... though not close enough to the action as Capa would say...
 
Good morning, Ruben! (for me in eastern NA) Certainly if the offended street subject is aggressive and dangerous, self-preservation mode kicks in and it's fight or flight. I was however thinking about a situation one notch down from that extreme, where there is no danger of physical harm, just an angry verbal confrontation, and how to handle that.

Roger, I've had one bad experience with street photography, but it involve taking pictures of some one's property. I had spent about 1 1/2 hours walking up and down Danforth Ave in Toronto, a somewhat trendy Greek restaurant street which also includes some run down, not so successful businesses. I was totally in the zone (or zoned out) and taking a picture of an open door and doorstep of a run-down apartment building, when this guy comes charging across the street from the coffeeshop he was in. He was older and shorter than me, but had the advantage of his anger and my zoned-outness. He yelled "What the H are you doing? Do you want me to smash that camera in your face?" etc. and made a grab for my camera (a Leicaflex standard at the time) and I think I pushed him away. I kind of stood my ground but was too surprised to say much. He continued to yell a bit, but then backed off and walked away, still swearing.

Now in hindsight, I was within my rights (standing on the sidewalk) and he was an ass, and I could have easily taken him down if not for my mental state being diametrically opposite to what was required for that. (Has anyone else experienced la-la land while focusing intently on photography for a length of time while alone?) I have no idea how many friends he had in the coffee shop, so it was good that nothing developed. I'm guessing he was the owner of that run down apartment building.

This was my one bad experience, and none of the advice given so far would have helped, but like I said, it's not this kind of extreme confrontation that I'm thinking about.
 
I haven't tried this yet, but Jeff Spirer, over on photo.net, recommended carrying a small portfolio book of your pics to show to people. I've been meaning to try that one.
 
I can only say I judge my response by the circumstances and the demeanour of the other person involved.


Like Vincent;
vincentbenoit said:
Just the truth, only the truth. It's lying that'll get you in trouble.

Vincent
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I try to never lie. Its pointless and I have no need to. Most of the time I'm perfectly reasonable and simply tell them I'm taking photographs because I enjoy it and I can, if they ask me for a more in-depth reasoning behind my taking photographs of people in the street I do so...this is normally the point at which their eyes glaze over and they lose interest ( I'm not the most eloquent of speakers!)

Occasionally someone will be be outraged, indignant and demanding, this usually annoys me and I simply make a caustic remark. I wouldn't advise anyone to do this but it does appear to work for me when it has happened. I also make the point that I'm not stupid and wouldn't wind up a chap with a gun shaped bulge in his jacket pocket or one who happens to be demonstrating his abilities with a butterfly knife. Its a balance between honesty, incl. that which causes you to react honestly (i.e. my anger/indignance that causes me to respond in kind) and simply reading a person and/or a situation best to avoid an unneccessary escalation of misunderstanding and/or bad feeling....or indeed any violence.

Simple honesty can't be beaten!
 
OurManInTangier said:
Simple honesty can't be beaten!
Click to expand...
Yes, but a lot of the time I am trying out a new camera/lens/film (see my original post), so it is rarely a lie for me to say so. Right now, TMY2, ZI SW, ZI 18/4, 35-50-90 Summarits, 28/2 ZM.

Besides, it's worked often enough for me even if it's not 100% true on that particular occasion.

Cheers,

R.
 
kevin m said:
I haven't tried this yet, but Jeff Spirer, over on photo.net, recommended carrying a small portfolio book of your pics to show to people. I've been meaning to try that one.
Click to expand...

That's not a bad idea actually and one of those small book style albums with twenty or so 6x4's in it wouldn't be hard to put together.

Next time I venture out on the street for candids I will be carrying cards with my name and a URL on them so they can go to my zenfoilo gallery and see for themselves what a deranged individual I actually am! :p

I also quite like the idea of talking intensly about the esoterics of what you are doing until their eyes glaze over and they walk away! :D
 
Roger Hicks said:
Yes, but a lot of the time I am trying out a new camera/lens/film (see my original post), so it is rarely a lie for me to say so
Click to expand...

I wasn't picking you out for special comment here Roger, simply saying that I find honesty is the best policy.

Though I must admit my horse has never been a particularly high one, before I worked out what works best for me I've told some tremendous lies to people. Including that I'm a copper working surveillance and it they don't push off I'll have them nicked - that one worked.

I've suggested that I'm a pap getting shots of Posh Spice, seriously(!) they were more interested in the thought she was milling around that they didn't think about my measley old Leica not having an uber lens on or even that Posh Spice would be wandering the streets of Ipswich ( for those non UK residents, transpose to any mid sized town of little note of your choice.)

So quite how I struck upon the whole honesty thing I don't know, there's a certain joy in seeing just how far you can go with an outrageous porky pie.:D
 
lol.. i tink i got a funny one..

if someone comes up and asks.. why are you taking pictures of strangers.. and why are you taking pictures of me?

the perfect answer is, Im taking street photos of anything interesting, it might be of strangers but the picture i took of you is definately not a stranger's shot.
since im talking to you now, it seems as we have met, therefore your not a stranger.. then turn around and walk away ;P this should leave them clueless of what just happen..
 
Just go and get a conceiled weapons permit and strap a 38 or 357 on your side when you go out and take pictures. When someone starts to confront you just make sure they see it. Or carry pepper spray and unload it on the jerk like Frank incountered who threatened to smash his camera. Just remember to pap their ass running away so we can all have a good laugh.:D Just kidding....Seriously there is no magical words Frank. You have to take each situation as it comes. I like the card idea and have been planed on getting some printed up.
 
FrankS said:
...............Roger, I've had one bad experience with street photography, but it involve taking pictures of some one's property. I had spent about 1 1/2 hours walking up and down Danforth Ave in Toronto, a somewhat trendy Greek restaurant street which also includes some run down, not so successful businesses. I was totally in the zone (or zoned out) and taking a picture of an open door and doorstep of a run-down apartment building, when this guy comes charging across the street from the coffeeshop he was in. He was older and shorter than me, but had the advantage of his anger and my zoned-outness. He yelled "What the H are you doing? Do you want me to smash that camera in your face?" etc. and made a grab for my camera (a Leicaflex standard at the time) and I think I pushed him away. I kind of stood my ground but was too surprised to say much. He continued to yell a bit, but then backed off and walked away, still swearing.

....... (Has anyone else experienced la-la land while focusing intently on photography for a length of time while alone?) I have no idea how many friends he had in the coffee shop, so it was good that nothing developed. I'm guessing he was the owner of that run down apartment building.

..............
Click to expand...


OK Frank, now we have something clear to talk about, and this kind of situation is not unknown. Perhaps it will not be the thing you are interested most, but the folks at RFF should be clear about.

War photographers, or conflict situations photographers, that arrived to Israel to cover the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, never landed on (let's say) Monday, catched a sleep and the day after they entered the Gaza Strip, or the West Bank.

First they went to the official Israeli Governmental Press Office, knowing what they are going to get there, and they went nevertheless to establish some relationship.

Then they tryied to contact any available Palestinian source in East Jerusalem, to start obtaining a kind of informal permission from the "real authorities on the ground". They informed themselves as for where they can or they cannot enter, and if possible arranged for a Palestinian guide, either from East Jerusalem or another waiting for him on the spot.

The point is that on disputed territory you don't enter uncovered, nor without permission, or without enough info.

I assume that many "run-down" areas in every city are disputed between the police and the local gangsters, or young machos. You correctly assumed that this single guy may have his reserves within that run-down bar, and in such case have you acted otherwise, you may have ended either injured or worse.

But next time you want to penetrate such kind of territory, you can do two healthy things. In that specific case it would have been a good idea to enter the bar first, put your camera on the table, have some drink and start a conversation with the fellows. The aim of this conversation is to allow you at the end to gain their symphaty for their living, and for them to allow measure you and get convinced you are not working for the police, or any other enemy authority.

So far for that. But in the future you can do something else in a run-down area.
Walk around, seat in any bar, and at either of both try to find a smart, or robust, "guide" to make you a tour . You will have to gain his symphaty, and perhaps also pay some small fee for several hours shooting.

Yet, don't forget that during the time you are gaining his symphaty, enabling him to measure your intentions, you must measure him too. Any teenager from the spot, showing concern for his neighbourhood, will be the best, and may do the job for free.

No need to say that at run-down areas you dress as if there is nothing to steal from you.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
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ruben said:
b-2) You are supposed to complement the silent shutter release, with a non-visual pressing of the shutter knob, using the joint instead of the tip of your finger.
Click to expand...

I've never heard/thought of that before, but just tried it. Definitely need to commit it to muscle memory. With my black leather gloves on that I shoot with in the cold, the twitch is completely invisible, and I think easier to get the shutter to fire then with the tip. I like already.
 
Haven't been confronted that often, but what I'd say (if anything) totally depends on the situation. I'm fine with lying, telling the truth, or saying anything irrelevant - whatever fits.

An orthodox nun once told me that photographing her is against God's will.. replying that "it's OK am an atheist" seemed to satisfy her enough. Playing a fool worked best with police officers in Belarus - where saying you were "documenting" anything (no matter how innocent) can be troublesome. Then, odd aggressive people now and then, some of them just go away if you stare at them while they babble, some need to be told to do so.

Can't really imagine any universal response to multitude of possibilities .. unless you say something crazy enough to brush most people away.
 
Some attempts at humour:

Pretentious: "I am an artist, my medium is light. You are a creature of shadows and I need you to express myselves." Say this with manic eyes, and people will think you're a looney and might leave you alone.

New York: "Up yours!" Too bad if they have a gun or knife and the willingness to use it.

Accidental: "Nope! I was photographing this empty featureless street, and you happened to get in my way. By the way, you owe me for wasted film. I take cash and cards."

Envious: "I'm a talent scout for a manjor Hollywood agency and was scouting for people to earn millions of dollars by pretending to be someone else. Shame really, coz you just blew your chance."

Fear: "HEY! LET GO OF MY CAMERA BUDDY! SOMEONE CALL THE POLICE QUICKLY! THIS MAN'S A TERRORIST! HEY EVERYBODY, THIS GUY'S GOT A BOMB!!!"

Professional: "If I took your photo, I could charge you thousands of dollars."

Modern: "Don't worry - this camera doesn't work because it has no battery. Look, the LCD screen on the back has even been removed!"

Famous: "Yeah, so claim on my estate when I die a famous photographer."


Seriously though, I guess it depends on the situation. An irate parent being protective of their children would be treated differently to a jobsworth security guard which would again be different to a gang of drunk men out for trouble. I can usually talk my way out of situations and haven't been into trouble yet, but there's always a first time.
 
Lesson 2: apparently if you'd go and ask bluntly, to 10 random girls on the streets, "let's make love", 3 would say "ok".
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The problem I find is that I'm not much in the mood for it after I've been punched by the other 7.
 
Seems that the same problem happens in every part of the world. I would play common sense in each case. In some situations, you can take the advantage of being discrete. In other cases, you may have to withdraw from the place. If you are unfamilar with the area, play in a conservative way.
 
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