street photography confrontation

I've had very few negative reactions to shooting people pictures in public. The oddest thing that ever happened was in Santa Fe, New Mexico. The Native Americans sell handicrafts on the town plaza. While shopping, my wife-- who is an occasional snapshooter only--started to lift her Canon Rebel to take a picture and was confronted by one of the vendors who berated her for taking pictures without permission. It was odd because I was standing beside my wife at the time and had been shooting pictures for several minutes with my Leica M6. My wife is fairly small and unobtrusive while I am tall and rather massive and hard to miss in a crowd. I put it down to the Leica being so stealthy or myself being so formidable.

I am confronted for handouts on the street more often by panhandlers in various stages of intoxication than people upset because of my photographing them.
 
I've only been "asked" a few times, almost always by some self-important employee (sometimes, but not often, a "security" employee) around some kind of public or semi-public building.

It usually goes something like:

"What are you doing?" Well what do you think? My usual response is: "taking photographs".

"Why?" "I'm a photographer."

Mostly, that just works. I'm not pretending that I'm not taking photos - and when asked, just saying "I'm a photographer" seems to do the trick. It may seem stupid but that line seems to work if said with confidence and without embarassment.

The only recent follow-up question I had was here in Sydney at Central Station when the railway worker said "You seem to be taking photos of women" (like that's a bad thing??) and had no real come-back when I said "roughly half of all the people I take photos of are women".

I strongly suspect that "hiding in plain sight" and giving simple-mindedly direct responses, if questioned, rather takes the wind out of people's sails. They're not sure that you're doing anything wrong, so as long as you say you're not then most people are unlikely to push it too much further. They're not confident, so if you are then they don't know where to go from there.

...Mike
 
YEGEY said:
I wonder what is it you are reffering to Ned? If I'm not mistaken, you are 31 years old. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Communist era in Eastern Europe was pretty much over by the time I would expect you could possibly have any troubles as a photographer there. Things were far more relaxed by the time you would be 18 and could face any real prison/issues. I lived behind the Iron Curtain for a long time and have general idea how these things worked there.
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Oh, Amigo! I'm 32, I started shooting at 14. At any age, in those countries, you get beat up and disappear quite fast. The adult/non-adult concept didn't really exist. Like the time I shot a Brick manufacture because it looked good in the sunset and had a gun pointed at me when I turned. It was the old and drunk security gard. I was supposedly a spy... Stayed there for 2 hours trying to get myself out of it.

I lived behind the Iron Curtain for a long time and have general idea how these things worked there.
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You we're not the only one.
 
marke said:
Ned, I'm quite sure you had a lot of fun with those experiments (and maybe got you a few dates ;) ), but how did this improve your photography?
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In the most important way: No more shyness, no more feeling small and fearing what other people will think of me. No more hallucinations that everybody is watching me and reading my mind while I'm out and shooting. Because let's face it, street photography confrontation is exactly that: paranoia.

That is how it improved my photography and my life in general.
 
NB23 said:
In the most important way: No more shyness, no more feeling small and fearing what other people will think of me. No more hallucinations that everybody is watching me and reading my mind while I'm out and shooting. Because let's face it, street photography confrontation is exactly that: paranoia.

That is how it improved my photography and my life in general.
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Brilliant.

Thanks.

R.
 
Keith said:
Next time I venture out on the street for candids I will be carrying cards with my name and a URL on them so they can go to my zenfoilo gallery and see for themselves what a deranged individual I actually am! :p
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I would not put the URL of my website onto such a business card. Perhaps an email-add, but no URL. Someone who's concerened about his privacy in respect to having his image "stolen" from him is likely to suspect that the photo would end up in the broad public of the internet, if some URL is printed onto the business card. At least I would suspect that.
With an email-add and/or phone number one would give the "victim" a chance to get into direct contact with you. Or perhaps ask for his/her email-add while handing over the card, so you can send him/her the photo.
 
Great advice, Ruben

Great advice, Ruben

This is the kind of stuff I was talking about in an earlier post. Most of the areas we shoot in will probably not require this level of (intelligent) preparation, but you gave a good example of when making an ally, and one chosen even beforehand, can prove not only be beneficial to your photography, but also important to your health!

ruben said:
The point is that on disputed territory you don't enter uncovered, nor without permission, or without enough info.

I assume that many "run-down" areas in every city are disputed between the police and the local gangsters, or young machos. You correctly assumed that this single guy may have his reserves within that run-down bar, and in such case have you acted otherwise, you may have ended either injured or worse.

But next time you want to penetrate such kind of territory, you can do two healthy things. In that specific case it would have been a good idea to enter the bar first, put your camera on the table, have some drink and start a conversation with the fellows. The aim of this conversation is to allow you at the end to gain their symphaty for their living, and for them to allow measure you and get convinced you are not working for the police, or any other enemy authority.

So far for that. But in the future you can do something else in a run-down area.
Walk around, seat in any bar, and at either of both try to find a smart, or robust, "guide" to make you a tour . You will have to gain his symphaty, and perhaps also pay some small fee for several hours shooting.

Yet, don't forget that during the time you are gaining his symphaty, enabling him to measure your intentions, you must measure him too. Any teenager from the spot, showing concern for his neighbourhood, will be the best, and may do the job for free.

No need to say that at run-down areas you dress as if there is nothing to steal from you.

Cheers,
Ruben
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Wow, Ned, you had some real deep issues to deal with, huh? I have to admit to being in tune to my surroundings and the behavior of those around me, but I don't think I've ever experienced such extreme reactions to my surroundings as you have had.

NB23 said:
In the most important way: No more shyness, no more feeling small and fearing what other people will think of me. No more hallucinations that everybody is watching me and reading my mind while I'm out and shooting. Because let's face it, street photography confrontation is exactly that: paranoia.
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Paranoia? Whose?

BTW, I was just wondering if you had any response to posts #77 and #88?
 
Marke, I think you take his metaphor as straight words here :) Being concerned about how other people relate to you is an important part of being social, but I admit it sometimes interferes with my streetshooting too (and I do it every day for years).
 
marke said:
This is the kind of stuff I was talking about in an earlier post. Most of the areas we shoot in will probably not require this level of (intelligent) preparation, but you gave a good example of when making an ally, and one chosen even beforehand, can prove not only be beneficial to your photography, but also important to your health!
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Walking with a local 'guide' is the best, for such situations. The guide will avoid the most dangerous situations, and when approached by any gang or group or particulars, he will make a small movement with his hand, meaning to them "It is Ok, he is with me". Being a local, he will be trusted by his neighbours.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
ruben said:
Walking with a local 'guide' is the best, for such situations. The guide will avoid the most dangerous situations, and when approached by any gang or group or particulars, he will make a small movement with his hand, meaning to them "It is Ok, he is with me". Being a local, he will be trusted by his neighbours.

Cheers,
Ruben
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Ruben, I understand. I had a local "guide" when I was overseas many years ago, doing research on a particular street crime. I even stayed with the guide overnight, partly for convenience, but also a bit for my own safety.
 
varjag said:
Marke, I think you take his metaphor as straight words here :) Being concerned about how other people relate to you is an important part of being social, but I admit it sometimes interferes with my streetshooting too (and I do it every day for years).
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Thanks, Eugene. I'm sure you're right about Ned being a little melodramatic. I think that tends to be his nature. I think keeping your emotional condition open is all part of being an artist, otherwise we would all be photographing brick walls (although I'm sure we would eventually run into someone who had a personal experience with one of those too!:rolleyes: ). I believe that having a certain level of sensitivity towards the people in your surroundings is probably beneficial to the quality of our photographs. Otherwise, how would we be aware of that "decisive moment" when it does happen? :D

I was also hoping that Ned would have something to say about posts #77 and #88.
 
gdi said:
Imants on LUF posted these links - watch and I think most will be amazed (Ned, maybe not so much!)


YouTube - Jeff Mermelstein (Media Matters) Part 1a


YouTube - Jeff Mermelstein (Media Matters) Part 2


YouTube - Jeff Mermelstein (Media Matters) Part 2
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Thanks for the links.

Mermelstein does some neat street work, there's no doubt about that. But when you shoot in places such as NY, you have more possibilities open to you all day long, every day. A city such as NY is a treasure trove of uniqueness in these possibilities, as many people are there striving to discover their own uniqueness.

It's interesting to note that Mermelstein maintains a certain respect for the people he photographs, unlike how some photgraphers appear to approach their work.
 
That's not odd...

That's not odd...

Dogman said:
I've had very few negative reactions to shooting people pictures in public. The oddest thing that ever happened was in Santa Fe, New Mexico. The Native Americans sell handicrafts on the town plaza. While shopping, my wife-- who is an occasional snapshooter only--started to lift her Canon Rebel to take a picture and was confronted by one of the vendors who berated her for taking pictures without permission. It was odd because I was standing beside my wife at the time and had been shooting pictures for several minutes with my Leica M6. My wife is fairly small and unobtrusive while I am tall and rather massive and hard to miss in a crowd. I put it down to the Leica being so stealthy or myself being so formidable.

I am confronted for handouts on the street more often by panhandlers in various stages of intoxication than people upset because of my photographing them.
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Last time I was in Taos I was told by someone not to take pictures of Native Americans without asking first as some of them have cultural issues with photography. You can't just wander onto one of the Pueblos and take pictures of the dances for instance. Now with your Leica they never SAW you take the picture, but they may have complained to you as well, had they seen you take their picture.
 
Man I get this every day... Just tonight I got a great shot of a Marine with a bunch of flowers for his girlfriend, or boyfriend by the way he reacted to the "possibility" that Id taken his shot. He doubled back and confronted me about it, even though Id moved down the block quite a ways. I just acted dumb and said I didn't remember, he got pissed and then I said "oh... that, sure, no I was getting a shot of that hot lil hispanic chick with the dog, did you see her? wasn't she cute? the one with the red pants?" he didn't know what I was on about but figured I was good for it so he left and ugly comment and scarpered..

Sometimes its good to just camp it up a little, sometimes its not, just do your best to avoid as many situations as you can -its your job to observe, when you get caught, then you fail... (until you pull that wet roll off your developing reel...)
 
dcsang said:
.... at that point I may say "I'm not into pedophilia.. I'm more a necrophiliac myself... " :D
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There are a lot of people I wouldn't expect to say something like that. But coming from you it's not really surprising! :rolleyes:

I personally like the response "I'm taking pictures." You could simply extend that a bit: "I'm taking pictures of everyday life on the streets of this city." It might be helpful to also play dumb a little, and suggest that you're really unsure about whether or not you actually took the person's photo. I suppose you could also lie and say, "I'm a tourist, and was just taking pictures of the town." Nobody bothers tourists. But really, honesty is the best policy.

It seems that we're having a lot more anxiety over street photography. Maybe we would all do good to just get out there and do it some more, rather than fretting about it here?
 
NB23 said:
One day I decided to wink every girl on the street with whom I would have eye contact for more then a millisecond. I learned a lot. 90% of those girls would just get shy and leave the scene as fast as they could and the other 10 would smile generously.
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I'm not in the habit of winking at girls on the street, but I have to agree with this. Generally speaking, most people (myself included) will avoid eye contact with a stranger of the opposite sex but some will make the best of it. Just the other day, a woman I looked over at gave me the biggest smile and these eyes that said "Hey, how are you!" I was so unprepared for this that I'm sure I turned red and walked away rather quickly. :eek:

This is probably why confrontations are so irregular when photographing: Most people don't like to interact with strangers without good reason. And I guess that for most people, suspecting that you've taken their picture isn't a good enough reason.

NB23 said:
Lesson 2: apparently if you'd go and ask bluntly, to 10 random girls on the streets, "let's make love", 3 would say "ok".
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This, I definitely have no comment. I'll take your word for it!
 
A couple days ago I was standing in front of the main entrance to one of Milwaukee's larger shopping malls. A man walking towards me saw my camera, but I didn't have it up to my eye at this point, just holding it at chest level in front of me. He was obviously a bit drunk, and as he pulled out his ID, held it up as if it was supposed to be significant to his presence, and said in slurred words, "Put dat cam'ra away, I'm here on pers'nal bus'ness". I wanted to laugh at the absudity of it all, but just gave him a quick smile and he kept moving along.

That has been the most resistance I've encountered in a long time.
 
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