street photography + harassment...

jsrockit said:
Really, it has no description?
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how would you describe any works of art? is mona lisa just a portrait of a woman, sistine chapel some religious illustrations...

anyone who attempts to describe a work of art is making a fool of themselves.
 
Here's a couple of suggestions that might make this discussion more interesting to other readers...

Suggestion 1: don't present opinions as facts. If you present your opinions as opinions, I for one will give them greater credibility.

Suggestion 2: don't try to out-arrogant other posters. It has been said many times that more flies can be caught by the application of honey than by dousing the place with vinegar.

Hey, I'm just a bystander with zero authority, trying to enjoy the debate. :)
 
Araakii said:
That's exactly right. Trying to hide your camera would only make you more suspicious.
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First you suggested he hide his picture taking, now you're saying he should "flash" his camera in "front of their face."

Where do you really stand, or are you just being contrary?
 
Sejanus.Aelianus said:
Here's a couple of suggestions that might make this discussion more interesting to other readers...

Suggestion 1: don't present opinions as facts. If you present your opinions as opinions, I for one will give them greater credibility.

Suggestion 2: don't try to out-arrogant other posters. It has been said many times that more flies can be caught by the application of honey than by dousing the place with vinegar.

Hey, I'm just a bystander with zero authority, trying to enjoy the debate. :)
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+1

Thank you.
 
Sejanus.Aelianus said:
Here's a couple of suggestions that might make this discussion more interesting to other readers...

Suggestion 1: don't present opinions as facts. If you present your opinions as opinions, I for one will give them greater credibility.

Suggestion 2: don't try to out-arrogant other posters. It has been said many times that more flies can be caught by the application of honey than by dousing the place with vinegar.

Hey, I'm just a bystander with zero authority, trying to enjoy the debate. :)
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Very good suggestions, thank you! One more to keep in mind:
Suggestion 3: Do not attack the person, argue the ideas.
 
Margu said:
street photography is one of those things that everyone familiar with it knows what it is but its at the same time impossible to define, which is another knock against it. if something cannot be defined it means its incomplete. street photography is an incomplete genre of photography, in fact its not even a genre, a genre is a complete structure.
.
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Margu said:
2: appeal of art

art is not appealing or unappealing, its art. that label itself raises it above the ordinary. sistine chapel is not appealing or unappealing, it has no description and that is why its art. if it can be described then its ordinary.
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So street photography cannot be a genre because it cannot be defined.

Art is art because it cannot be described.

Therefore Street Photography is Art.
 
Nikkor AIS said:
I love reading threads like this..
Hearing how other photographer's "take" on the subject of street photography is of great interest to me..

As far as how the OP handled it.. You did fine..

Do this street shooting thing long enough. And you realize you cant make everyone happy.. If you get the shot and you get home.
And your pictures..dont completly suck..


Than as far as I am concerned your on the right road..

you got's to do what's right for "you"
And leave everyone else to do wat they think is best for them.


With more experince, you will find "your" way..

Over the years.. I have to expect that not everyone will like me having there picture.. taken....

It's the street... It's the concrete jungle..

Being confident and self assured is key..



If they dont like it To God damn bad.. I never give them back LOL..

And I would resist in a most strong manner if I was asked to delete a photo.. or when /if they grab for my camera..

However, these days. For the most part, I shoot film so even if they ask.. I tell them "NO".

Sorry it's film..

"But dont worry.. I still put your picture on the internet.. Hahahha...


And than I tell them I would love to talk about it, but they have to keep up..

I have never had anyone want to argue enough that they followed me as I started shooting other people.. ;)

Just staying busy shooting/ looking for the "next shot.. Really solves most issues..
I am sure it helps that I can walk really fast..


And while I may indeed be giving photographer's a bad name..

I LOVE to get up close and personal..

Always have..



Nikkor 24 2.8 AI-S on Fm Tri-X

I have no use for staged or posed street shots..

So I adopt a shoot first and ask questions later approach..

And I only regret the picture's I dont have the guts to shoot..



If at all possible I wait untill the last possible moment pre-visualize and quickly raise the camera and focus/click..

Which can be done.. lightening quick with practice.






After that I am more than happy to talk to them.. But for the most part..

I like to keep moving.. and on to the next person..



Setting for long periods of time ... staring with the camera has never been my thing.. But hey to each there own..

Personally I dont have such limited set of rules..

I will also shoot from the chest..

I will act confused looking up while shooting someone standing right in front of me..


I will photograph someone and than look behind them like I was photographing
them and not the person..standing in front of me.

If I shoot person I will often quickly take a few shots of those around them..

I will point a camera and blindly shoot someone walking behind me..

t's all good..

For the most part,

I really think that people less threatened when there not singled out..

SO if your going to shoot , than "DO it" .. Bring lots of film. Or fill up your card..
But shoot , shoot and shoot..


And by gettig used to raising a camera and going click..

You get over it..



But that's just my experince..




From my experinece give people a reason "not" to hassel you and they will often take it..

Latley, I have taken to acting a little crazy/spaced/zoned out..

In short , I look really confused.. For me it's not that hard.. hahaha

Anyways, I learned to use all kinds of little tricks..

Like focusing on a point the same distance away but to the side of the subject, than quickly turning.. click..

Got ya.. haha



And while I am sure the folks out there think I bat **** loney.. I dont care..
If it allows me to take some photo's that I other wise wouldnt .. or cause conflict for me while shooting.. I dont realy care to feel bad..
So long as I get the picture.. And I go home.. I am good to go.

As far as acting a little crazy.. well

Even the most primitive of society's have an innate respect for the insane..

But in 90 % of the time.. I take a picture.. Give my little nod of appreciation.. a little smile..

It goes along way.
So yes..by all means.. smile after a little nod after a image..







However.. that being said..

Listening to several of the comments on this thread..

It just seems to me that more than a few photogrpaher.. have so many personal hang ups and fears..It's probally best they dont shoot street.

It can be dangerous..

And yes can.. or you may be attacked..

And If you do it long enough you will have contact will law enforcement..

Be polite and stand your ground..


It's none of the business what your taking pictures of..

It really isnt..

And being a published photojournalist.. I consider myself to be a photojournalist..

So that gives me certain.. Get out of my face F ing appraoch.. with authourty types..

Over the years.. I have my fair share of incidences..

Looking to get into some more later this week hahahah..

You got to a sense of humor.. or really what is the point.. ?


For the most part.. If the situation turns hositil.. I try to de-escalate.. And short of that blending/re-directing And if push comes to shove.

Well, sometimes you got's to protect your self..

My skill set in that area may not be what your is... so I dont want say to much about that...


However, maintaining your personal space is going to go a long way to not getting sucker punched..


The conflict side of street shooting It's not something that "many photographers want to hear.. but it's true..

And I for one will not let that stop me from doing it..

Like I said to each his own..


But for the most part 99.99% of conflict can be resolved with out the need for violence..

The fact is often as photographer.. we are taken.. intimate moments of people's lives.. And for the most part.. Having to do this is really hard..

And it takes a certain... drive.. or willingness that most just dont have..

So be it..

Street photography isnt for everyone..

And these day's especaily in the west.. It seems many "loves" to tell me what I can and can not to photographically on the street..

But honestly. I rarely if ever see anyone else shooting people on the street around these parts.. ?

In the last couple of years.. I bet I have seen less than 5/10 ..

Not sure why that is.. other than folks are scared to do it ..

For me, confronting that fear.. is one the main reasons to keep banging away..






I am just changing/re-building my kit..
And have just picked up a 21 .18 ASPH /M2 (specifically acquired to go with a second, M2 and the 35 1.2 ASPH.. which will be my go to street set up, for the end of winter/spring.








I can't wait...:)



I have made some pretty bold smack here, so I have included some images..


I dont have much of my recent film work scanned/printed yet.. But here is some of early work..

"The best pictures are yet to be taken.."




Nikkor 16 2.8 AI-S on F2as





Nikkor 24 f 2 AIS on FM-2 T-maz 3200




Nikon F2as 16 AI-s on Tri-X




Nikkor 24 2.8 AI-S on Fm2. Tri-X







Nkkor 300 2.8 IF-ED AI-S on F2as Color neg converted to B=W in digital post..




Nikkor 135 2.0 on F2as Tri-X ..





Nikkor 50 2.0 AI-S on Color neg digitally converted..





Nikkor 400 2.8 IF-ED AI-S on Nikon D3 hand held..




Nikkor 24 2.8 On Fm-2 Kodachrome 64






Leica M3 15 4.5 ASPH on 100 asa

Rogalsky photography on facebook..
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Excellent approach with superb results.
Your philosophy "shoot first and ask later" that is it.
 
I began reading this thread because I thought, oh interesting. Then I realised it's an old thread and ffwd to the last page, noticed something about killing a woman, and getting the feeling that emotions had been stirred high. Oh well, another such thread. Sigh.

emraphoto said:
we must, at some point, recognize the building anti-sentiment and work towards alleviating it or a situation where the very act of photographing in public is forbidden will be on us.
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This is exactly what needs to be done. Each and everyone out there on the streets photographing, whether for work or privately, must realise that how they behave, particularly when confronted, will impact the general public's views of street photographers. I avoid hip shots for instance and prefer standing there visible with the camera raise.

So here I disagree somewhat with Blake Andrews's point 4 in this write-up.
 
What I think is important when you are shooting on the streets is to just be you.

Sometimes I ask.
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And when I'm looking for moments I don't ask first.
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If you are out there on the streets taking photographs you are going to be rejected at times and you are probably going to be harassed once in a while. It just comes with the territory.
 
pdh said:
You threatened to kill a woman who was unarmed, not physically threatening you, because she had been mildly rude to you?

I'm not surprised she looked stunned. If I had been her I'd have reported you to the police.
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she already threatened to put him in jail and deprive him of his liberty for simply taking a photo? You just give her a pass for that, thus enabling this kind of behavior. Bravo to the man who stood up for himself.
 
68degrees said:
she already threatened to put him in jail and deprive him of his liberty for simply taking a photo? You just give her a pass for that, thus enabling this kind of behavior. Bravo to the man who stood up for himself.
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:eek:

So, if police officers come to arrest a suspect, it is alright to kill those officers as they want to put the suspect in jail and deprive him of his liberty? That is the ultimate consequence of the position that you're taking here, I hope you were kidding..... :bang:
 
Happens to me regularly. I usually make out like I'm a geek (half true) and say, "I wasn't photographing you, I was interested in the patterns of that brick work/colour of the paving stone" etc, or whatever. This takes them off guard, then if you try and start a conversation with them about interesting brickwork design they run away. Also works with police/authority too - talk to them about architecture and they give up. I think it is important, and a matter of principle, not to be too defensive or apologetic (unless you really have to be) as bullies can takes this as a sign (i) that they are in the right and (ii) that you are weak and they can continue to harass you.
 
Addy101 said:
:eek:

So, if police officers come to arrest a suspect, it is alright to kill those officers as they want to put the suspect in jail and deprive him of his liberty? That is the ultimate consequence of the position that you're taking here, I hope you were kidding..... :bang:
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He did not kill her did he? He stood up for himself verbally to scare someone away who would have otherwise made up false allegations about him to put him in jail. Bravo to him! You should check your logic meter its either badly broken or altogether missing. Also look up the word non sequitur thats what your argument is a perfect example of. Cheers.
 
Just shoot... then post online :)
I do know the awkwardness that can be experienced by the street photographer, which for me stems from empathy for the (potentially) unwilling subject. But still, in my mind, all roads lead to more or less a feeling of who cares, man. Just another spice of life.

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