street photography + harassment...

DNG said:
Oh, I sure to flamed for this reply... being not my style.... but, sheesh.... come on ......:bang:
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Ha ha, no worry, it is good to have an exchange of different views on the topic and sometimes, being outspoken clarifies things. I just wanted to point out the possible consequences for the public reception of the medium or rather the genre of "Street Photography".

I would like to recommend that article by Bill Jay as an interesting supplementary read and historical account.
 
haempe said:
Does street photography have to obey the common rules of human coexistence?
Is the success of the photographer more worth than the right of the subject not to be ashamed?

I find it remarkable that the unasked pictures usually show the weak and defenseless ...
but calling the cops and describe it as harassment when someone don't let themself exploit by you?

Argh, disgusting thread...
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You just proved my point. This idea you have that the unasked pictures usually show the weak and defenseless, is absurd.
 
gho said:
I do not know what is significant or interesting about taking a picture of a stranger in the street and showing their misery, discontent or negative reaction to the interaction. When I look at a photograph, I try to put myself into the shoes of the picture taker and quite often it is not clear to me what the motivation behind the picture was. Moreover, I myself start feeling uncomfortable when looking at those pictures. Sure, I tried it myself but did not find it worthwhile to harp on it more thoroughly. I would not publish these pictures anyhow. I talked with others (photographers) about it. They said: "Maybe they just want to show that they have balls" and something along those lines.

Or the general concept of street photography has simply become something like "Running around with a specific camera brand and trying to emulate Bruce Gilden or Henri Cartier-Bresson". Or maybe Capa's concept of "getting close" is meanwhile taken to literary. To me that saying does not necessarily mean shoving a lens into the face and banging on it with a flash. 🙂

I hope the workshop guys and gals out there are doing a good job by helping the participants along with developing an own unique photographic vision instead of producing a steady stream of Brucies. I think that would also be in his sense, but who knows.

As a last note I would like say something about "Not leaving a bad trail for others that follow." For example, if you are approaching a specific subject matter in a disrespectful and rude way, it is remembered. And it may make it difficult for others to explore that subject matter photographically in a more serious manner.
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...............this
 
Rick Waldroup said:
Such strange responses to street photography.

I am not a pervert. I am not a voyeur. I am not some egomaniac who has to prove I have a set of balls to go along with my fancy cameras. My intent is to never exploit or demean people in any way. The scenes that unfold before me may play a part in that, but I do not. It is never my goal to make people uncomfortable with my street photography. If I do that, then I have failed in executing the technique and passion that is unique to me.

I simply document what I see before me. I hardly ever title my photos because it is rare when I want to influence how the viewer sees or influence what they think about one of my shots.

Street photography is a beautiful art form. Perhaps a lot of the negativity that some folks have to it speaks volumes about their misconceptions about the intent and purpose of street photographers. At that point they need to look in the mirror and face their own suspicions and paranoia about themselves.
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Well Said !! 🙂

I consider SP a more refined form of photography.... as Jazz is to music. Very Hard to master... but, with plenty of gratification along the way.
 
Rick Waldroup said:
You just proved my point. This idea you have that the unasked pictures usually show the weak and defenseless, is absurd.
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Rick Waldroup said:
...
Street photography is a beautiful art form. Perhaps a lot of the negativity that some folks have to it speaks volumes about their misconceptions about the intent and purpose of street photographers. At that point they need to look in the mirror and face their own suspicions and paranoia about themselves.
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There are street photographers and street photographers... do you read this thread completly?

I'm from Germany, the law forced us to ask for a photo and I think that's right and polite and decent.
 
haempe said:
There are street photographers and street photographers... do you read this thread completly?

I'm from Germany, the law forced us to ask for a photo and I think that's right and polite and decent.
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do professional journalists have to follow that law too?
 
haempe said:
There are street photographers and street photographers... do you read this thread completly?

I'm from Germany, the law forced us to ask for a photo and I think that's right and polite and decent.
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Yes, I have read the entire thread. And I understand the laws in Germany about shooting people in public. What I do not understand are your views on street photography.
 
Rick Waldroup said:
Yes, I have read the entire thread. And I understand the laws in Germany about shooting people in public. What I do not understand are your views on street photography.
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Don't generalize that. I'm able to differentiate a open hearted street photographer from a hunter of human adversity.
 
DNG said:
me thinks, you think too much, and just go out and take a ton of photos instead to explore a genre, rather than build a false impression about a genre you have not given an honest try first.
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By the way, I take pictures in public myself and this is why the topic matters to me. For example today I framed a picture of a man in the subway holding a dog in a pullover. I found it somehow cute. I waited until he noticed me with the camera and smiled. When I could not notice any objections I made the photograph. When I left the train we both smiled and had a good experience.

I could also have used a flash, "grab shooting" a close up, leaving him and the dog annoyed. Not very nice.
 
gho said:
By the way, I take pictures in public myself and this is why the topic matters to me. For example today I framed a picture of a man in the subway holding a dog in a pullover. I found it somehow cute. I waited until he noticed me with the camera and smiled. When I could not notice any objections I made the photograph. When I left the train we both smiled and had a good experience.

I could also have used a flash, "grab shooting" a close up, leaving him and the dog annoyed. Not very nice.
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If someone comes up close to me and flashes within a few feet of my face I would consider it battery with a bright light. Its painful and they know its painful.
 
haempe said:
Don't generalize that. I'm able to differentiate a open hearted street photographer from a hunter of human adversity.
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My friend, you are the one who started with the generalizations.

We just view things differently I suppose when it comes to this matter. That is what makes the world go round.🙂
 
gho said:
By the way, I take pictures in public myself and this is why the topic matters to me. For example today I framed a picture of a man in the subway holding a dog in a pullover. I found it somehow cute. I waited until he noticed me with the camera and smiled. When I could not notice any objections I made the photograph. When I left the train we both smiled and had a good experience.

I could also have used a flash, "grab shooting" a close up, leaving him and the dog annoyed. Not very nice.
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Well, you know, there are other ways to shoot candid shots without using a flash, getting in his face, etc. In other words, there are many ways to shooting street that entails not making an ass of yourself. 😉

Sometimes I ask for permission before shooting. Sometimes I acknowledge a person with a smile or a nod. Usually I shoot without asking. I am never aggressive nor am I confrontational. If someone seems to have a problem with me shooting their picture, I smile, walk right up to them, offer my card, explain to them what I am doing, and offer to send them a copy of the photo by email or a print by slow mail. This approach has worked for me for 40+ years.
 
Rick Waldroup said:
My friend, you are the one who started with the generalizations.
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Maybe. Without intention.
Rick Waldroup said:
We just view things differently I suppose when it comes to this matter. That is what makes the world go round.🙂
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I don't think so.
Rick Waldroup said:
...
Sometimes I ask for permission before shooting. Sometimes I acknowledge a person with a smile or a nod. Usually I shoot without asking. I am never aggressive nor am I confrontational. If someone seems to have a problem with me shooting their picture, I smile, walk right up to them, offer my card, explain to them what I am doing, and offer to send them a copy of the photo by email or a print by slow mail. This approach has worked for me for 40+ years.
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For me eye contact before the shot is the key to get the feeling if the person has a problem to get photographed. After taking the photo the card or a little chat. Works for me too.
 
I never understood.. How it is .. disrespectfull to take picture's of people with a camera.

Sell it to me..?


I think it's absurd to be having negative feelings about it.. It's like looking at someone..

Isnt it..?

Is it than disrepectfull to write about the experince later.. In a poem or story..
Or make a painting or a pencil drawing..

Where does it end..


And really are we all so sensitive that if someone dosnt want there photo we destroy it or never show it..

Well how high minded some of us are..

Me I just lowely street photographer.. what do I know..?




If you ask me... Photographers take these types of postions cause they dont have the guts to do it..

And so they dont want anyone else to ..

Like monkeys throwing **** down on the leopards.


Where is the creative freedoom of the photographer come into play.?


And how is it you, who think it's so horrible to take street photo's of certain things/ anything and anyone to judge in that little moment between the shot being pre-visuaized and than that moment disappearing ..

On the street , sometimes , it happens so fast..

And It would throw me off If I had to thinking about all the things I wasnt going to shoot and how everyone else thought about what I was doing..

Personally.. I can tell you.. In the zone.. it's all about instincts. And for me personally it's all about getting past are own fears and even perceptions of
what is a suitibal street shooting subject..


And you got to understand I will and do photograph anything on the street.. Smudges of **** o the wall if it might make an interesting image..


So why is it I wouldnt photograph the everyone I come accross .. From guys in suits, the homeless, little kids, old people ..... street fights.. accidents mishaps.. If it happens in front of me..

Exactly what is the issue..?

How is it wrong...?


In fact I make a special point of photographing people with disabilitieis and many of your would be surprised to know that they often give me the biggest smiles..

Life is often hard.. and me showing them along with everyone else is represeted of society..

To me excluding people is rude..

Again,
I find myself talking some smack so I have included some images to bolster my positon..


Today.. I did some work on my destruction of the habbitat project.. But after work I am definally going a street shooting tomorrow..

This thread has gotten me fired up..



Sorry about the digital images..
I really think my best work is in film, but like I said.. still not scanned/printed..








































OM-D with 12-50






This guy here called the cops on me.. After shooting him with long glass.. (200 1.8 F-L and Elan) I had walk up to him and take a shot with my Leica M2 and 35 1.2 ASPH.. . And than he came over to my table and told me to why I took his photo.. and that I "must delete it..


When the cops showed up.. I was with a freind from the states.. All he could say.. we dont talk to the cops like that in LA hahah... I told him we got differnt ideas.. of rights and freedooms in Canada.

Besides I had done anything wrong.. So cops had no business, getting in my face.. and asking for my card..



"Why are you taking pictures." . "None of your business.. I am not under arrest." . hahaha..
In the end , they ran my name.. And after the incident I had last year where I went to the police staition and filed a complaint of harrasment.. I was free to go..
Go figure..

Sometimes the best defense is good offense..



I really hope that other photographer's get out and exercise there right to practice the art of street photography..


"Nothing to it .. but to do it.. "






200 1.8 EF-L on 5d2




And just for the record.. I love Bruce's Glilden's work, and I am a huge fan.

Some of his work on the home evictions was incredibly moving..

As far as his meathods.. I never like to judge how another man "see's and does his art..
 
Nikkor AIS,
Excellent. And thanks. You've spoken for me. Even though I don't have the balls to do what you do, I'm glad you're doing it.
 
Very well put.

gho said:
I do not know what is significant or interesting about taking a picture of a stranger in the street and showing their misery, discontent or negative reaction to the interaction. When I look at a photograph, I try to put myself into the shoes of the picture taker and quite often it is not clear to me what the motivation behind the picture was. Moreover, I myself start feeling uncomfortable when looking at those pictures. Sure, I tried it myself but did not find it worthwhile to harp on it more thoroughly. I would not publish these pictures anyhow. I talked with others (photographers) about it. They said: "Maybe they just want to show that they have balls" and something along those lines.

Or the general concept of street photography has simply become something like "Running around with a specific camera brand and trying to emulate Bruce Gilden or Henri Cartier-Bresson". Or maybe Capa's concept of "getting close" is meanwhile taken to literary. To me that saying does not necessarily mean shoving a lens into the face and banging on it with a flash. 🙂

I hope the workshop guys and gals out there are doing a good job by helping the participants along with developing an own unique photographic vision instead of producing a steady stream of Brucies. I think that would also be in his sense, but who knows.

As a last note I would like say something about "Not leaving a bad trail for others that follow." For example, if you are approaching a specific subject matter in a disrespectful and rude way, it is remembered. And it may make it difficult for others to explore that subject matter photographically in a more serious manner.
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taskoni said:
Dear Pieter,

You said it very well and I am with you in some of your thoughts on the subject.
Anyway, my friend Dave Lackey is right that you are judging the photo not knowing anything about the situation it is made and you are right as we are all expecting the photograph to bring message on it's own, with no explanation needed. I posted this picture as example of my comment on shooting from the hip vs shooting straight (if I can put it this way).
It might be interesting for you to know that the old lady's reaction was not addressed to me personally - it was addressed to a group of kids making fun of her. I have only this shot as I quickly moved among those kids but stupidly not including them in the frame - bad decision of the photographer 🙂
Anyway, someone said this picture doesn't bring out anything where I disagree - it brought (and brings) emotions (not necessarily pleasure) to you and other people, so it must be something in it - anger? 🙂
If I have had shot it from the hip I could have achieved a more dynamic
and dramatic angle, but my goal was to put myself into those kid's shoes and as you see I have succeeded to a certain degree. You feel the anger, right?

BTW, I really like this shot as it is special to me. You guys feel free to dislike it if you wish!

Regards,

Boris
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Well then, it seems I have indeed misjudged what is happening in the picture. I hope you understand how the context of this thread helped that mistake. But thank you for the explanation.
 
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