haempe
Well-known
LOL
It seems you are a very brave man. And all the different thinking people are wimps.
Regarding the monkeys; no need to throw something... would be redundant... leopards have already brown patches.
sisser
Established
A couple of months ago I was attacked by a +/- 35 year old man with a iron crowbar.
thegman
Veteran
In reply to Nikkor AIS's request to be persuaded that taking someone's photo can be disrespectful, let me try. I don't necessarily believe that it is disrespectful, but I think it *can* be.
On the tube, if I'm reading a book, and someone is reading it over my shoulder, for some reason, that feels rude and disrespectful. Why? It's not affecting me in any way, but I don't like it.
The thing with living in a so-called civilised society is that we have to (or should do) respect the beliefs and feelings of others. Even if I believe someone's beliefs are rubbish, or their feelings are ridiculous, I have a social responsibility to at least respect that a little bit.
If someone does not want to have their photo taken, you certainly have the right to take it anyway, in the same way you have the right to read someone's book over their shoulder. But whilst it is correct that you have those freedoms, insisting on exercising every freedom you have, without thought for others, is probably not a civilised way to behave.
A more extreme example is this, there are those extremists who picket military funerals etc. It's their right to do that, but it's uncivilised and disrespectful. Nobody wants to take away anyone's rights to take photos of others, but you have to show judgement about when to use those rights.
On the tube, if I'm reading a book, and someone is reading it over my shoulder, for some reason, that feels rude and disrespectful. Why? It's not affecting me in any way, but I don't like it.
The thing with living in a so-called civilised society is that we have to (or should do) respect the beliefs and feelings of others. Even if I believe someone's beliefs are rubbish, or their feelings are ridiculous, I have a social responsibility to at least respect that a little bit.
If someone does not want to have their photo taken, you certainly have the right to take it anyway, in the same way you have the right to read someone's book over their shoulder. But whilst it is correct that you have those freedoms, insisting on exercising every freedom you have, without thought for others, is probably not a civilised way to behave.
A more extreme example is this, there are those extremists who picket military funerals etc. It's their right to do that, but it's uncivilised and disrespectful. Nobody wants to take away anyone's rights to take photos of others, but you have to show judgement about when to use those rights.
dave lackey
Veteran
This subject comes up so often about street photography. It is really getting old. On one extreme, you have someone who will shoot and post anything. On the other, you have someone who asks politely to take a picture away from the encounter and it may or may not be posted.
As most of you know, I fall in the middle. I don't do extremes.
All my life, I was taught "The Golden Rule" among many other things and it has served me well. Not as a religious mantra, just as a way of life.
My wife is disabled. Since 2010. In November, she had a debilitating stroke and she is working very very hard to recover from it. She also has feelings and if anyone has never experienced something like a stroke, a damned photographer taking her photo is the LAST thing she or I wants, so take it from me. I spent seven weeks in the hospital and rehab at her bedside every minute. Never went home except once a week or every ten days, for an hour to change clothes. It was the second most difficult time in my life but we have been rewarded with her not-yet-accomplished-successful journey back to a somewhat normal life and there is more, much more work and pain to reach her maximum recovery.
Spending thousands of hours in-residence at the hospital and rehab center, I had the opportunity to make friends with and help many disabled people of all races. It was my pleasure and honor to do so. The long-term ill and those with dementia were housed in the upper floors. A lot of interaction with all of them if you can imagine. But I never once took out my camera from my man-bag that I had with me 24 hours/day. Why? Because I respected them and it never occurred to me to take a photo, or even ask. I could never intrude upon their personal space when they are suffering.
There are many instances where I would never take a photo on the street. Not for a million dollars, ever. Disabled people strike too close to my soul and core of my being because we are one of them and as a photographer, if I or someone else with a camera cannot be kind, show love for them and be of some help to them, personally, not as an "overall good of the world to know the disabled" justification, then the camera should never be used.
Photography is a powerful thing. Art and creativity are wondrous in their power to change the world. IMHO, we should use this power to help individuals who need help.
Oh, I mentioned the second-most difficult thing in my life was the last 3.5 months in hospital, rehab and outpatient rehab. What is the most difficult thing for me? Every damned minute... including this one just to keep my wife alive, survive the surgery she is having in 24 hours, and doing everything in my power to assist her with a quality life, happiness, and enjoying our family.
After that, photography seems to not matter much anymore but it is key to my own therapy and well-being. It is a passion. To be used for the betterment of others. YMMV. But that is just me.
As most of you know, I fall in the middle. I don't do extremes.
All my life, I was taught "The Golden Rule" among many other things and it has served me well. Not as a religious mantra, just as a way of life.
My wife is disabled. Since 2010. In November, she had a debilitating stroke and she is working very very hard to recover from it. She also has feelings and if anyone has never experienced something like a stroke, a damned photographer taking her photo is the LAST thing she or I wants, so take it from me. I spent seven weeks in the hospital and rehab at her bedside every minute. Never went home except once a week or every ten days, for an hour to change clothes. It was the second most difficult time in my life but we have been rewarded with her not-yet-accomplished-successful journey back to a somewhat normal life and there is more, much more work and pain to reach her maximum recovery.
Spending thousands of hours in-residence at the hospital and rehab center, I had the opportunity to make friends with and help many disabled people of all races. It was my pleasure and honor to do so. The long-term ill and those with dementia were housed in the upper floors. A lot of interaction with all of them if you can imagine. But I never once took out my camera from my man-bag that I had with me 24 hours/day. Why? Because I respected them and it never occurred to me to take a photo, or even ask. I could never intrude upon their personal space when they are suffering.
There are many instances where I would never take a photo on the street. Not for a million dollars, ever. Disabled people strike too close to my soul and core of my being because we are one of them and as a photographer, if I or someone else with a camera cannot be kind, show love for them and be of some help to them, personally, not as an "overall good of the world to know the disabled" justification, then the camera should never be used.
Photography is a powerful thing. Art and creativity are wondrous in their power to change the world. IMHO, we should use this power to help individuals who need help.
Oh, I mentioned the second-most difficult thing in my life was the last 3.5 months in hospital, rehab and outpatient rehab. What is the most difficult thing for me? Every damned minute... including this one just to keep my wife alive, survive the surgery she is having in 24 hours, and doing everything in my power to assist her with a quality life, happiness, and enjoying our family.
After that, photography seems to not matter much anymore but it is key to my own therapy and well-being. It is a passion. To be used for the betterment of others. YMMV. But that is just me.
If someone doesn't want you to take their photo, yes, it can be disrespectful. Why, because you are not taking into account their feelings. Also, staring at someone has been considered impolite in many societies.
I'm not against this type of photography because I do it at times too, but I don't think you can say that taking a persons photo up close with a wide angle is not an aggressive act... it certainly can be.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
In fact, if they don't want their picture taken, it is next to impossible for it not to be.
Cheers,
R.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
But how does the 'promise of reward' make any difference? If I punch you on the nose because I'm being paid $1000 to do so, I can't see how this is different from punching you on the nose for my own personal amusement. In fact, if anything, in my view it's more reprehensible.
Cheers,
R.
Nikkor AIS
Nikkor AIS
Thanks you guys. I really appreciate it..
Leica m9 and 28 1.9 ASPH..
Excuse me Sir.. can I take your picture...
I was thinking of this thread when I went out tonight..
And I was telling my photographer freind Keven Fiderco about this discussion.. I mention this because Keven was there last year when i was swarmed by three police cars.. all because I refused to delete a picture I took of a man and his wife and his baby in a stroller..
At any rate, the whole incident really shock keven up. He is a very non- confrontational type of person.. His idea of street shooting is.. well stuff like this..
And even though, he has a Sony A900 does most of his shooting with his I phone IV on the street..
And even since, we hang out from time time.. And shoot the odd event together.. " Calgary tower project".
Even shooting garbage has it's share of hassles.. People will often come out.. and ask Keven and I .. What the hell he is doing photographing "there" garbage..
It's kind of inside joke to us .. But like we told the cops on day when they rolled up on us in a Subway parking lot.. And they said.. Where afraid to ask.. but what are you doing .. "expanding human conscienceness (sp) was his reply.. I went with the simple "making art".
At any rate the cops noticed I had a Leica M9 and asked Is that a Leica you got there.. I was like oh ya and this is 50 1.0 Noct.. .. And than as turned he saw the that I also had a Nikon D3s .. "And a Nikon " he pointed out.. Oh ya With a Nikkor 58 1.2 Nocturnal.. Clearly he was photographer himself.. and than he says.. "And your photographing.. garbage.".
Making art I says..
Expanding human Conscienceness(sp)
We both grinning like idiots..
I walk right up to the window and diminish his reactionary cap( bad officer safey boys) and lean in and show him the pictures on the M9 chimp screen..
"See"
"Like I say's art.. " I say smiling..
http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Featured-Gallery/i-h7QqrSS/0/M/BBB_8330-M.jpg
Leica M9 50 1.0 Noctilux
http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Featured-Gallery/i-H5jgtQz/0/M/L1009457-M.jpg
Nikon D3s with 58 1.2 Nocturnal.
I guess my point is , if people are so paranoid as to call the cops for two photographer's photographing "objects" in a parking lot..making it art. Than to me.. people will call the cops on any photographer for any reason.. Get used to it.. It' s just how things are now..
What's that saying hate the game , not the players.
To me that's a clear sign that we need more street photographer's out there.
Cause if there is just two of us.. It makes us look pretty strange.. LOL
a shot Keven took of me with his I-phone.. "street shooting.."
Now in saying that, I make a point of not hiding my gear or the fact that I am a photographer when I go out.
I am sure that I could shoot quite nicely with a camera hidden inside my jacket.. and just the lens pointing out... But where is the fun in that ?
Looking pretty tired after a long day and than going out to the bar..
Leica m9 and 28 1.9 ASPH..
Excuse me Sir.. can I take your picture...
I was thinking of this thread when I went out tonight..
And I was telling my photographer freind Keven Fiderco about this discussion.. I mention this because Keven was there last year when i was swarmed by three police cars.. all because I refused to delete a picture I took of a man and his wife and his baby in a stroller..
At any rate, the whole incident really shock keven up. He is a very non- confrontational type of person.. His idea of street shooting is.. well stuff like this..
And even though, he has a Sony A900 does most of his shooting with his I phone IV on the street..
And even since, we hang out from time time.. And shoot the odd event together.. " Calgary tower project".
Even shooting garbage has it's share of hassles.. People will often come out.. and ask Keven and I .. What the hell he is doing photographing "there" garbage..
It's kind of inside joke to us .. But like we told the cops on day when they rolled up on us in a Subway parking lot.. And they said.. Where afraid to ask.. but what are you doing .. "expanding human conscienceness (sp) was his reply.. I went with the simple "making art".
At any rate the cops noticed I had a Leica M9 and asked Is that a Leica you got there.. I was like oh ya and this is 50 1.0 Noct.. .. And than as turned he saw the that I also had a Nikon D3s .. "And a Nikon " he pointed out.. Oh ya With a Nikkor 58 1.2 Nocturnal.. Clearly he was photographer himself.. and than he says.. "And your photographing.. garbage.".
Making art I says..
Expanding human Conscienceness(sp)
We both grinning like idiots..
I walk right up to the window and diminish his reactionary cap( bad officer safey boys) and lean in and show him the pictures on the M9 chimp screen..
"See"
"Like I say's art.. " I say smiling..
http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Featured-Gallery/i-h7QqrSS/0/M/BBB_8330-M.jpg
Leica M9 50 1.0 Noctilux
http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Featured-Gallery/i-H5jgtQz/0/M/L1009457-M.jpg
Nikon D3s with 58 1.2 Nocturnal.
I guess my point is , if people are so paranoid as to call the cops for two photographer's photographing "objects"
in a parking lot..making it art. Than to me.. people will call the cops on any photographer for any reason.. Get used to it.. It' s just how things are now.. What's that saying hate the game , not the players.
To me that's a clear sign that we need more street photographer's out there.
Cause if there is just two of us.. It makes us look pretty strange.. LOL
a shot Keven took of me with his I-phone.. "street shooting.."
Now in saying that, I make a point of not hiding my gear or the fact that I am a photographer when I go out.
I am sure that I could shoot quite nicely with a camera hidden inside my jacket.. and just the lens pointing out... But where is the fun in that ?
Looking pretty tired after a long day and than going out to the bar..
Nikkor AIS
Nikkor AIS
So my 21 1.8 ASPH came in and I went and picked it up tonight..
After looking at Keven's box opening on his I'phone..I tore open the box and couldnt wait to see this new lens.. Ohhh baby it's Niiiiice..
Like my 35 1.2 ASPH, the 21 1.8 ASPH it is by no means petite..
I joked to Keven I like my lenses, like I like my cat, fat and heavy.. "Sorry Precious" we still love you..
Nikkor 800 5.6 IF-ED AIS on Nikon D3s.. Stopped on the street and placed lens/camera on hood of car.. Only had a about two seconds to frame it and squeeze off a frame or two..
Nikkor 800 5.6 IF-ED AI-S on D3 hand held..
Nikkor 800 5.6 IF-ED AI-S with D3 on mono pod..
ISO 500 1/250 @F2..
Nikkor 300 2.0 IF-ED AI-S on Nikon D3 handheld..
photo by Cat..
So encluded some shots with the long glass cause I think there is an idea, that some how shooting with long glass is cheating ..
Often I am very close when shooting with telephoto's and use the reach to crop out everything else but the person..
Or sometimes just the look of long glass with the isolation and compression..
Nikkor 300 2.0 IF-ED AI-S on D3..
Anyway's I digress.. Not having and fast film in my M2 and my other M2 still in transit.. I slapped the converter on and put it on the OM-D..
Ohhh it's nice and bright.. and even on the tiny OM-D sensor, at least a little wide..
Went to the Drunken Poet's society meeting and did some low light candids..
It's funny, get people drinking and shoot availible darkeness without flash...
And they are none the wiser and never say anything about having there picture taken..
Take those same people on the street and they would be calling the cops.. But get a drink in there hand ... and it's all good..
After parking the van on the street and on the way into the bar, As I was telling my pal a story about when I used to live there...oo , . When we where approcahed by a self proclaimed "guy who lived on the street.
After saying I I kept talking to Keven and patientlly waited for me to "almost" finish my story.. before he moved in, so he could ask for money.. As he stepped up, I managed to get a couple of really great street shots....
I dont normally pay for a photo.. In fact I never do.. But in this case..
Before walking into the bar, I reached in my pocket and I handed him a toonie and a warm smile.. I was in such a great mood. And he was really polite.. and..., I was greatfull, to have a interesting subject to test the new glass..
I was kicking myself for not receiveing my shipment of T-Max 3200 from freestyle Photographic.. cause that is just the type of shooting I want to so with this combo..
So for now the digital image will have to do..
Shooting in the bar is kind of a extension of street shooting to me..
I have done quite a bit of it.. and getting candid's is the real key.. IMO..
Tonight, I got a dandy.
And while chatting around the table, I picked up a photo gig. Photographing a opening of a pulication launch "www.seities.ca" on friday..
And met a really cool writer girl who is doing the story..
I tell you this thread was injecting positve energy.. and ... look what happens..
Homeless man waiting to hit patrons up when they leave the bar..
All and all, a pretty good night..
I couldnt help Laughing out loud, when one of the guys who kind of walked in my frame just after takig this shot..
Said to me.. I should ask permission first..
I was knelling down..when he next to me.. and I stood up and looked at him.. Not smiling .. It was end of the conversation..
The girl gave me a really smile when she walked by me,.. HAHAHAH
I love that..
It's not that I try to be intimidating to this guys.. it's just...after a while over 25 years street shooting you start to get air about you when someone starts to "chirp"
And I would like nothing more than having it all be positve.. But that isnt life is it..
In the end it's really about how you react to conflict/stress you might get while street shooting .. and how you can use "that" to inspire your photography..
" The Best pictures are yet to be taken.."
After looking at Keven's box opening on his I'phone..I tore open the box and couldnt wait to see this new lens.. Ohhh baby it's Niiiiice..
Like my 35 1.2 ASPH, the 21 1.8 ASPH it is by no means petite..
I joked to Keven I like my lenses, like I like my cat, fat and heavy.. "Sorry Precious" we still love you..
Nikkor 800 5.6 IF-ED AIS on Nikon D3s.. Stopped on the street and placed lens/camera on hood of car.. Only had a about two seconds to frame it and squeeze off a frame or two..
Nikkor 800 5.6 IF-ED AI-S on D3 hand held..
Nikkor 800 5.6 IF-ED AI-S with D3 on mono pod..
ISO 500 1/250 @F2..Nikkor 300 2.0 IF-ED AI-S on Nikon D3 handheld..
photo by Cat..So encluded some shots with the long glass cause I think there is an idea, that some how shooting with long glass is cheating ..
Often I am very close when shooting with telephoto's and use the reach to crop out everything else but the person..
Or sometimes just the look of long glass with the isolation and compression..
Nikkor 300 2.0 IF-ED AI-S on D3..
Anyway's I digress.. Not having and fast film in my M2 and my other M2 still in transit.. I slapped the converter on and put it on the OM-D..
Ohhh it's nice and bright.. and even on the tiny OM-D sensor, at least a little wide..
Went to the Drunken Poet's society meeting and did some low light candids..
It's funny, get people drinking and shoot availible darkeness without flash...
And they are none the wiser and never say anything about having there picture taken..
Take those same people on the street and they would be calling the cops.. But get a drink in there hand ... and it's all good..
After parking the van on the street and on the way into the bar, As I was telling my pal a story about when I used to live there...oo , . When we where approcahed by a self proclaimed "guy who lived on the street.
After saying I I kept talking to Keven and patientlly waited for me to "almost" finish my story.. before he moved in, so he could ask for money.. As he stepped up, I managed to get a couple of really great street shots....
I dont normally pay for a photo.. In fact I never do.. But in this case..
Before walking into the bar, I reached in my pocket and I handed him a toonie and a warm smile.. I was in such a great mood. And he was really polite.. and..., I was greatfull, to have a interesting subject to test the new glass..
I was kicking myself for not receiveing my shipment of T-Max 3200 from freestyle Photographic.. cause that is just the type of shooting I want to so with this combo..
So for now the digital image will have to do..
Shooting in the bar is kind of a extension of street shooting to me..
I have done quite a bit of it.. and getting candid's is the real key.. IMO..
Tonight, I got a dandy.
And while chatting around the table, I picked up a photo gig. Photographing a opening of a pulication launch "www.seities.ca" on friday..
And met a really cool writer girl who is doing the story..
I tell you this thread was injecting positve energy.. and ... look what happens..
Homeless man waiting to hit patrons up when they leave the bar..
All and all, a pretty good night..
I couldnt help Laughing out loud, when one of the guys who kind of walked in my frame just after takig this shot..
Said to me.. I should ask permission first..
I was knelling down..when he next to me.. and I stood up and looked at him.. Not smiling .. It was end of the conversation..
The girl gave me a really smile when she walked by me,.. HAHAHAH
I love that..
It's not that I try to be intimidating to this guys.. it's just...after a while over 25 years street shooting you start to get air about you when someone starts to "chirp"
And I would like nothing more than having it all be positve.. But that isnt life is it..
In the end it's really about how you react to conflict/stress you might get while street shooting .. and how you can use "that" to inspire your photography..
" The Best pictures are yet to be taken.."
tunalegs
Pretended Artist
Something most people learn when they're still in the single digits is that the world doesn't revolve around them. Whether another person's feeling is reasonable enough or not (by your standards) doesn't change that they feel it. Whether you care about or respect their feelings is up to you of course - certainly you're not required to.
Not really, because when you look away from somebody you don't have a copy of their image with you anymore. Although I agree I find it a bit silly to worry about.
It's relatively more easy to identify a person in a photograph, than it is to identify a person from a pen sketch or anecdote. This should be self evident for anybody who has ever read something or kept a sketchpad.
Obviously not. Some people are though, whether reasonably or unreasonably.
...
What, have respect for others thoughts or feelings? Or perhaps they're simply not interested in working that way - that's another perfectly plausible explanation. Perhaps even - some might feel they get better results when they ask people for a photograph? What a thought.
I don't know, you basically just said that people who don't work like you do are just bitter that anybody else would do something they wouldn't. Do you really need everybody else to be happy about your methods? I thought you were writing about how you had the guts to not care - yet here you are caring about what other people think and criticizing them for thinking about things differently than you? I don't get it.
vs.
Ok then.
I think it's important to realize that different people have different opinions, different tastes, different values, and different methodologies when it comes to photography. As long as it works for them I suppose that is all ok. To belittle those who work differently from you as being gutless is kind of callow I think. If somebody wants to ask permission and they get good results, who's to complain about that? If somebody asks permission and invites a subject into their studio and gets good results? Really who cares? If it works for them ok. Just because you don't have any value for asking for a shot doesn't mean everybody who does is somehow lesser of a photographer - or even bitter that you do work differently than they do. Snapping surreptitiously is your bag, and that's ok too. But there's no need to knock those who don't.
68degrees
Well-known
did you get a shot of him with the crowbar aloft?
sisser
Established
No i didn't. It was a very unpleasant affair. I saw this typical homeless man dragging a kind of train made of 7/8 supermarket trollys behind him and I tought this was good for a photo. Perhaps if I give him some money he would let me take a picture of his train and maybe with him aswell.
I walked up to him and said goodmorning sir but before I could finish my sentence he took a big wooden club from one of the carts and threatenend to hit me.
He got very angry and shouted at me. I tried to calm him down in English, German, French and Dutch but nothing helped he only changed the wooden club for a crowbar.
Okay that was enough for me and I stepped back and he, stil shouting went on his way.
When he was walking away I thougt let me take a picture from the back but when I raised my camera he looked back and went crazy.
He came running at me and swung the crowbar viciously at my head. Lucky enough I was abel to stop his swing arm and simultaniously hit him in the face. Not something I liked to do but I could not risk him taking a second swing at me with that crowbar. He stumbled back and was in a bit of pain that ended his attack mood.
At that moment I was very cool but coming home I got a bit of the shakes.
Being attacked by a young man with a crowbar doesn't happen to me every day.
This happenend about 5 / 6 months ago, I post it now so street shooters are warned that something like this can happen.
gho
Well-known
I guess that everyone has to know ones own borders and make a judgement based on ones own ethical standards about what is ok and what not, but should not be surprised if one runs into trouble. At least to me more interesting pictures may result if one is making a contact. And it needs some courage too to actually communicate with people to meet them on eye level and to bring ones personality in. A key ingredient for good photojournalistic work - in my humble opinion - is getting access. And perceiving one's subjects as prey does not help that along. It may even block access to potentially interesting situations for oneself and for others that follow.
In the picture below I visited a concert with a friend and happily flashed along. I was approached by someone who asked what I was doing. The next day I had to go to a plenum to get a release, quite interesting.
Here I noticed some street musicians from eastern Europe making some noise at a Berlin subway station and asked if it was ok if I took some pictures. It was ok.
This person simply entered the frame and clearly indicated that he was comfortable with the situation so I pushed the shutter release.
Here I ran into a rally and stayed along. I felt ok with taking pictures because it was an event of public interest.
In this situation I made a few exposures while chatting about the HDR pictures he took on his phone. He was not uncomfortable with that.
And so on. I just want to say that making a contact may result in more interesting pictures, a more interesting experience and may also open the doors to more interesting situations. And not being rude certainly makes life easier for those that follow along.
In the picture below I visited a concert with a friend and happily flashed along. I was approached by someone who asked what I was doing. The next day I had to go to a plenum to get a release, quite interesting.
Here I noticed some street musicians from eastern Europe making some noise at a Berlin subway station and asked if it was ok if I took some pictures. It was ok.
This person simply entered the frame and clearly indicated that he was comfortable with the situation so I pushed the shutter release.
Here I ran into a rally and stayed along. I felt ok with taking pictures because it was an event of public interest.
In this situation I made a few exposures while chatting about the HDR pictures he took on his phone. He was not uncomfortable with that.
And so on. I just want to say that making a contact may result in more interesting pictures, a more interesting experience and may also open the doors to more interesting situations. And not being rude certainly makes life easier for those that follow along.
kuzano
Veteran
Wait until people are gone.
Wait until people are gone.
When I take my camera out, I am interested in capturing subjects that are of interest to me.
People are not.
I politely wait until people leave the scene, or move out from in front of my subject matter.
There is nothing about people that makes me the slightest bit interested in recording them.
By the way, did anyone here see the 2 hour Public Broadcasting special aired a couple of years ago, showing various stages of how the Earth would evolve into a state where no evidence of mankind continued to exist. Now that's evolution.
Very interesting.
Wait until people are gone.
When I take my camera out, I am interested in capturing subjects that are of interest to me.
People are not.
I politely wait until people leave the scene, or move out from in front of my subject matter.
There is nothing about people that makes me the slightest bit interested in recording them.
By the way, did anyone here see the 2 hour Public Broadcasting special aired a couple of years ago, showing various stages of how the Earth would evolve into a state where no evidence of mankind continued to exist. Now that's evolution.
Very interesting.
Tono10
Member
That'll happen if we won't learn how to respect each other.
taskoni
Well-known
Dear Pieter,
<EDIT - added: You have judged the picture, not the situation so you reacted according to what you see and I think this is the way to do it.>
I usually don't explain my photos online but this time it felt better and right somehow.
I didn't wanted to turn the interesting thread into a war zone :angel:
And to lighten up the thread - that's how I do it!
That's me, caught in action
Regards,
Boris
P.S.
Oh, NO! Photographing kids while smoking
Last edited:
Nikkor AIS
Nikkor AIS
Thanks for letting me be part of this discussion..
Let me ask..?
How do I ask to take a candid photo while shooting with a 400 2.8 EF_L ?
Or a 200 1.8 EF-L
And what is offensive to some is art to another..
85 1.2 L 2 on 5D2.
I photographed this rabbit the day before..As part as a long term project documenting the distruction of the habitat.
400 2.8 EF-L on 5D2
Are we so touchy feelly that we can't take are picture being taken...
But in society it's okay to rip out natural habbit that has been there for .. eones for another poarking .. Now to me thats offensive.
Really..
Or do we have to just people from the back so know one can't identify them...?
For me I love photographing people's faces..
200 1.8 EF-L on 5d2..
400 2.8 EF-L on 5D2
And while some here think it's not "right" (what ever that means) to photograph the homeless and old and the disabled. Or as I like to call them "people".
frankly I could care a less wht they think..
Dont like most block me. Not that hard..
I dont understand how what lens I use or how close I am makes one
difference in how or if the picture is offensive.. ?
This is a picture of my neibor , taken from my balcony..
I have shot of them , a few weeks later from ground level ,, Where there both smiling looking right at the camera... TO me having both helps tell the story.. of the human condition.. Not sure where that picture is But I will find..it...
And again this idea of if your to close your somehow envading some "code of personal space..
My answer is good..
As getting inside can make for an interesting picture..
One of my favorites , Rick Hansen Loves it as well..
Nikkor 8mm 2.8 A-IS on F2AS..
The press photographer's where scearming at me to get back..
Several said they want ed to fight me after the ballons floated away.. Whe i called there bluff the y backed down..
Sometimes if I am driving and got some long glass. I will shoot from my car.. My 10 year old pointed ou the other day.. How creepy is this.. LOL
But even he had to admit It was a great shot... Shot in film still not scanned..
That's how I got this one..
Several weeks later.. I was chased down by one of her realitives who wanted to get a print and know what lens I was using..
400 2.8 EF-L on 5D2
Look the idea I trying to get accross you can judge me all I want..
IF you want be a street photographer.. you better like people.. And know how to interact with them..
Cause if trouble starts.. it's over long before the cops get there..
At any rate..
When I am in the zone.. I dont feel apart from the people I am photographing.
And maybe that's the key.. It's not what you do it's how you feel about wht your doing while your doing it..
It changes it..Or at least it can
People fall on hard times..oo
Life gets messy..
In writing this post.. my mind is searching for a way to put it..
But in truth.. Unless your out there.. Walking the streets as a street photographer.. You will never "get it".
The "it" is differnt for everyone..
I know that for many they will never, infact they wouldnt even dream of shooting the stuff I do..
And while I do my best to be tolerent of those disagree..
In truth, it's much simpler and better for me and my photography if I dismiss them out of hand.
Sorry if you feel like I am disrepectfull and selfish..
But i will tell you.. for years.. I shot, and shot and shot.. and hardly showed anyone..
Someone made a comment about thinking about society as a whole...
Or something like that...
Okay, Here is the thing.. "I" am also, part of society.. Like it or not..
And even though, and I sure some of you cringe when youn think about it..
I am also one of you.. "a photographer"
For better or worse.. Just doig my best to find my way in the world..
I could on and on , about how much , I love street shooting , for so many reason's
I kind of started shooting street.. and honesty .The street shots where the first images.. that didnt complety suck..
You can do it with just about any camera..
Over the years I have used a varity of camera and lenses..
There is no right or wrong..
The photo works or it dosnt..
You dont need a licence or permission.."FROM ANYONE" LOL
And for me it full fills a deeply rooted primal instint in me to "watch" other human's
Someone made a comment that in some societies it's not polite to stare..
Okay.. well why is that. ? Cause it can be deemed threatening right..
Have you ever seen baby's stare.. ?
I may be a big scarry guy to some.. some not.. But I have noticed over the years.. When I go to a restaurant or a elevator and there is baby..
They jsut love me...
More often than not they will stare at me..
I remember one time this little baby girl was so enambered with me that her mom jokingly offered to let her sit at my wife's and kids table..
Of course the whole time I was making funny sounds and making faces.. basically acting like a fool to entertain the baby..
Even my kids where getting into it and went over to see her..
And it was funny cause at the same time my wife both said at the same time. We even take her home.. Too funny.. Everyone laughs..
Maybe it''s my big bald head.. They think I am a big baby.. LOL
Or maybe I am really imature and they feel sorry for me..LOL
Not matter..
Or may be it's something deeper , about the way I stare..
Who know's ..?
But over years.. I had nothing but positve interactions with old people , dogs/cats and old folks..
I am still afraid of women.. HAHAH
Who isnt.. haha
Not sure what that means..
The fact is I really like people...even if on the internet te feeling isnt always mutual..
Well I can live with that..
Feel free to talk about the merits of "my life's work" so far..
And the fact is .. I dont arguing and intereacting with the odd person..
On the street or in a message board, Cause most times.. A level of understanding is all that is needed to reach a state of harmony..
At anyrate..I always back my words with images..
And if push comes to shove.. My deeds with action..
I wouldnt say anthing to anyone here I would say to there face..
And not talking about what is legal..
Look here is the "thing" (priory)
"Why are you taking my picture" .. OMG do you have any idea.. of how many times I heard that.. LOL
And I never get defensive out there.. At least not right way.
And if someone wants to get mad.. They have that right.
I am not stopping them..
And if confronted on what I am taking there picture for..(happened today out in the middle of huge clear peice of land.. by a guy in earth mother..
I do my best to be polite..
And while it's easy to be cheeky and sarcastic..
I just tell them straight.. I am a street photographer and I thought they where interesting..
Or in this case < I ahve documenting the destrution of the habbitat and I thought you and your machine would make an interesting image..
And it's interesting how that earth mover is clearing the dirt.. Will soon be a street..
I take it levels other's dont even know exisist..
At any rate, for the most part one or two things will happen..
They will smile and say oh and that's the end of it.. which happends , 99% of the time..
And yes there is 1% that want to make a stink... And start chirping..
Or as happened to me this summer.. pull a chain saw on me.
(yes I have photo's I will post next post)
Like I told one guy not that long ago.. Getting mad and threatening me, isnt going to make the picture go away..
Just calm down.. It's not a big deal..
I took a thousand photo's today.. Your... just... one...
Let it go.. than I nodded , which I feel is a symbolic bow.. ( Japenese Sword Arts, Kenjutsu..)
And than when he stepped towards me a reved the chain saw menencally . I not only stood my ground but calmly took a step toward him and told him to put it down..
Which did.. (whole story about the aftermath of that one..)
Long story short.. They didnt end up cutting down the tree's with the nesting hawks.. And infact the tree's are still there to this day..
And really I could care a less about that one person.. And I wont let it ruin my day shooting.. It means nothing if I dont want it to..
just goes with the territoy.. the minute.. I dont find people interesting .. I will do something else..
Like sitting on the internet telling other people what is a what is not a great photo. or how to shoot.LOL
Untill I am going to keep pushing it.. Way further.. and get closer.. and deeper..
Look to me the whole ideal of photography is to share "my" vision.. If you dont like it you dont have to look..
And it's true I may have a slightly scewed idea version of the what's "acceptable".
To statement like "acceptable" needs to be qualified..
So I am just going to leave that one untill someone wants to qualify what that means..
Acceptable to shoot...from what angle...? Color or B+W..
printed/shown dispalyed.. published.. written about.. The possibilities are infinite..
But this idea that I have to consider the feeling of somone in the heat of the moment.. Leaves me shaking my head..
And some one who thinks like that is cleary what I call a "Arm chair quaterback photographer".. TM..
While it's easy to have all kinds of theory' s and opinions.. For the most part.. I have kind of gone with the shoot first and ask questions later..approach
Why cause often it's hard to know "exactly what you got while your getting it..
Out in the feild when your right there, and you think you getting some really stunning images.. In your mind it's hard not to think.. This is "it".. It's takes considerable controll to contoll the adrenilne surge .. . Keeping the camera steady, at the right level/distance from subject../ framed, focused and doing my best to get the desisive moment before the it's gone..Or your out of film..
And add to that how that photo fits with all the other's taken in life time..
"flashing images pass you by.. like a windsheild towards a fly..
(RUSH)
Thinkingback about just some of my most powerfull images..
And becasue I was there I am, It's impossible to disconnect me the story around how I came to be there.. And yet they are a ting within them selves.. And so am I... I dont how to express it.. ?
Doing what I do as a street photogrpaher..
Going forward to much thinking and ...
It would cripple me, artistically,
Even thinking about it, There was a time when I lost the ability to street shoot..
I just couldnt stick a camera in someones's face..
And there was a time I thought I would never do it again..
Life can challenge you..
It's such a cliche. But artist suffer for there work..
And being a street photographer has not always made it easy to in relationships..
And so far, it's not I have made a dime doing it.. so...
Sorry to kind of a prick.. but I have found if listen to much to the "Know not's" and the negative types who want to judge and be negative of what I do .. ?
I have learned to shut them out.
Being around negative people can plant a seed..
And I want to stay far away from the succubus hater's want to be's that never had guts to do it for them selves.. may sound hard..
So am I a contradiction , wrapped in a riddle , tied in a mystery..
Arent we all..?
And why do I do this.. The same reason that anyone does anything i suppose..
Because they can.
safe shooting everyone..
"When you run out of film.. shoot the last roll again.."
Let me ask..?
How do I ask to take a candid photo while shooting with a 400 2.8 EF_L ?
Or a 200 1.8 EF-L
And what is offensive to some is art to another..
85 1.2 L 2 on 5D2.
I photographed this rabbit the day before..As part as a long term project documenting the distruction of the habitat.
400 2.8 EF-L on 5D2
Are we so touchy feelly that we can't take are picture being taken...
But in society it's okay to rip out natural habbit that has been there for .. eones for another poarking .. Now to me thats offensive.
Really..
Or do we have to just people from the back so know one can't identify them...?
For me I love photographing people's faces..
200 1.8 EF-L on 5d2..
400 2.8 EF-L on 5D2
And while some here think it's not "right" (what ever that means) to photograph the homeless and old and the disabled. Or as I like to call them "people".
frankly I could care a less wht they think..
Dont like most block me. Not that hard..
I dont understand how what lens I use or how close I am makes one
difference in how or if the picture is offensive.. ?
This is a picture of my neibor , taken from my balcony..
I have shot of them , a few weeks later from ground level ,, Where there both smiling looking right at the camera... TO me having both helps tell the story.. of the human condition.. Not sure where that picture is But I will find..it...
And again this idea of if your to close your somehow envading some "code of personal space..
My answer is good..
As getting inside can make for an interesting picture..
One of my favorites , Rick Hansen Loves it as well..
Nikkor 8mm 2.8 A-IS on F2AS..
The press photographer's where scearming at me to get back..
Several said they want ed to fight me after the ballons floated away.. Whe i called there bluff the y backed down..
Sometimes if I am driving and got some long glass. I will shoot from my car.. My 10 year old pointed ou the other day.. How creepy is this.. LOL
But even he had to admit It was a great shot... Shot in film still not scanned..
That's how I got this one..
Several weeks later.. I was chased down by one of her realitives who wanted to get a print and know what lens I was using..
400 2.8 EF-L on 5D2
Look the idea I trying to get accross you can judge me all I want..
IF you want be a street photographer.. you better like people.. And know how to interact with them..
Cause if trouble starts.. it's over long before the cops get there..
At any rate..
When I am in the zone.. I dont feel apart from the people I am photographing.
And maybe that's the key.. It's not what you do it's how you feel about wht your doing while your doing it..
It changes it..Or at least it can
People fall on hard times..oo
Life gets messy..
In writing this post.. my mind is searching for a way to put it..
But in truth.. Unless your out there.. Walking the streets as a street photographer.. You will never "get it".
The "it" is differnt for everyone..
I know that for many they will never, infact they wouldnt even dream of shooting the stuff I do..
And while I do my best to be tolerent of those disagree..
In truth, it's much simpler and better for me and my photography if I dismiss them out of hand.
Sorry if you feel like I am disrepectfull and selfish..
But i will tell you.. for years.. I shot, and shot and shot.. and hardly showed anyone..
Someone made a comment about thinking about society as a whole...
Or something like that...
Okay, Here is the thing.. "I" am also, part of society.. Like it or not..
And even though, and I sure some of you cringe when youn think about it..
I am also one of you.. "a photographer"
For better or worse.. Just doig my best to find my way in the world..
I could on and on , about how much , I love street shooting , for so many reason's
I kind of started shooting street.. and honesty .The street shots where the first images.. that didnt complety suck..
You can do it with just about any camera..
Over the years I have used a varity of camera and lenses..
There is no right or wrong..
The photo works or it dosnt..
You dont need a licence or permission.."FROM ANYONE" LOL
And for me it full fills a deeply rooted primal instint in me to "watch" other human's
Someone made a comment that in some societies it's not polite to stare..
Okay.. well why is that. ? Cause it can be deemed threatening right..
Have you ever seen baby's stare.. ?
I may be a big scarry guy to some.. some not.. But I have noticed over the years.. When I go to a restaurant or a elevator and there is baby..
They jsut love me...
More often than not they will stare at me..
I remember one time this little baby girl was so enambered with me that her mom jokingly offered to let her sit at my wife's and kids table..
Of course the whole time I was making funny sounds and making faces.. basically acting like a fool to entertain the baby..
Even my kids where getting into it and went over to see her..
And it was funny cause at the same time my wife both said at the same time. We even take her home.. Too funny.. Everyone laughs..
Maybe it''s my big bald head.. They think I am a big baby.. LOL
Or maybe I am really imature and they feel sorry for me..LOL
Not matter..
Or may be it's something deeper , about the way I stare..
Who know's ..?
But over years.. I had nothing but positve interactions with old people , dogs/cats and old folks..
I am still afraid of women.. HAHAH
Who isnt.. haha
Not sure what that means..
The fact is I really like people...even if on the internet te feeling isnt always mutual..
Well I can live with that..
Feel free to talk about the merits of "my life's work" so far..
And the fact is .. I dont arguing and intereacting with the odd person..
On the street or in a message board, Cause most times.. A level of understanding is all that is needed to reach a state of harmony..
At anyrate..I always back my words with images..
And if push comes to shove.. My deeds with action..
I wouldnt say anthing to anyone here I would say to there face..
And not talking about what is legal..
Look here is the "thing" (priory)
"Why are you taking my picture" .. OMG do you have any idea.. of how many times I heard that.. LOL
And I never get defensive out there.. At least not right way.
And if someone wants to get mad.. They have that right.
I am not stopping them..
And if confronted on what I am taking there picture for..(happened today out in the middle of huge clear peice of land.. by a guy in earth mother..
I do my best to be polite..
And while it's easy to be cheeky and sarcastic..
I just tell them straight.. I am a street photographer and I thought they where interesting..
Or in this case < I ahve documenting the destrution of the habbitat and I thought you and your machine would make an interesting image..
And it's interesting how that earth mover is clearing the dirt.. Will soon be a street..
I take it levels other's dont even know exisist..
At any rate, for the most part one or two things will happen..
They will smile and say oh and that's the end of it.. which happends , 99% of the time..
And yes there is 1% that want to make a stink... And start chirping..
Or as happened to me this summer.. pull a chain saw on me.
(yes I have photo's I will post next post)
Like I told one guy not that long ago.. Getting mad and threatening me, isnt going to make the picture go away..
Just calm down.. It's not a big deal..
I took a thousand photo's today.. Your... just... one...
Let it go.. than I nodded , which I feel is a symbolic bow.. ( Japenese Sword Arts, Kenjutsu..)
And than when he stepped towards me a reved the chain saw menencally . I not only stood my ground but calmly took a step toward him and told him to put it down..
Which did.. (whole story about the aftermath of that one..)
Long story short.. They didnt end up cutting down the tree's with the nesting hawks.. And infact the tree's are still there to this day..
And really I could care a less about that one person.. And I wont let it ruin my day shooting.. It means nothing if I dont want it to..
just goes with the territoy.. the minute.. I dont find people interesting .. I will do something else..
Like sitting on the internet telling other people what is a what is not a great photo. or how to shoot.LOL
Untill I am going to keep pushing it.. Way further.. and get closer.. and deeper..
Look to me the whole ideal of photography is to share "my" vision.. If you dont like it you dont have to look..
And it's true I may have a slightly scewed idea version of the what's "acceptable".
To statement like "acceptable" needs to be qualified..
So I am just going to leave that one untill someone wants to qualify what that means..
Acceptable to shoot...from what angle...? Color or B+W..
printed/shown dispalyed.. published.. written about.. The possibilities are infinite..
But this idea that I have to consider the feeling of somone in the heat of the moment.. Leaves me shaking my head..
And some one who thinks like that is cleary what I call a "Arm chair quaterback photographer".. TM..
While it's easy to have all kinds of theory' s and opinions.. For the most part.. I have kind of gone with the shoot first and ask questions later..approach
Why cause often it's hard to know "exactly what you got while your getting it..
Out in the feild when your right there, and you think you getting some really stunning images.. In your mind it's hard not to think.. This is "it".. It's takes considerable controll to contoll the adrenilne surge .. . Keeping the camera steady, at the right level/distance from subject../ framed, focused and doing my best to get the desisive moment before the it's gone..Or your out of film..
And add to that how that photo fits with all the other's taken in life time..
"flashing images pass you by.. like a windsheild towards a fly..
(RUSH)
Thinkingback about just some of my most powerfull images..
And becasue I was there I am, It's impossible to disconnect me the story around how I came to be there.. And yet they are a ting within them selves.. And so am I... I dont how to express it.. ?
Doing what I do as a street photogrpaher..
Going forward to much thinking and ...
It would cripple me, artistically,
Even thinking about it, There was a time when I lost the ability to street shoot..
I just couldnt stick a camera in someones's face..
And there was a time I thought I would never do it again..
Life can challenge you..
It's such a cliche. But artist suffer for there work..
And being a street photographer has not always made it easy to in relationships..
And so far, it's not I have made a dime doing it.. so...
Sorry to kind of a prick.. but I have found if listen to much to the "Know not's" and the negative types who want to judge and be negative of what I do .. ?
I have learned to shut them out.
Being around negative people can plant a seed..
And I want to stay far away from the succubus hater's want to be's that never had guts to do it for them selves.. may sound hard..
So am I a contradiction , wrapped in a riddle , tied in a mystery..
Arent we all..?
And why do I do this.. The same reason that anyone does anything i suppose..
Because they can.
safe shooting everyone..
"When you run out of film.. shoot the last roll again.."
Nikkor AIS
Nikkor AIS
cameosis
word? up!
fixed.
tell me about it -- but what me worry. inbreeding is a form of purism, too, but hardly anybody in their right mind is a fan of that (except for certain dog and horse owners ...).
my thoughts exactly.
that was my favorite as well.
professional journalists usually don't earn their money by doing street photography. and, depending on the situation, yes, they have to follow that too -- i explained that earlier on in the thread somewhere (lost count).
sometimes, it's more like a big hairy man walking up to you and forcing his tongue in your mouth. maybe now you get the picture (oh, a pun!).
@ nikkor, you're posting a lot of pictures where the people don't seem to object or where they look comfortable being photographed -- that's not the issue here (at least not to me). we're talking about pictures where some members here have basically stated that they don't give a sh.it whether people like it or not when they decide to photograph them and claim they have a right to do so.
this is a common misconception -- there may be countries where this is legal, but there are also countries, where this is thankfully not so -- always under the condition that the photographed individual is opposed to having his or her picture taken.
Nikkor AIS
Nikkor AIS
Cameosis,
I thought this discussion was about being harressed for taking photo on the street..? And how to deal with those types of situations..
And also it was about the society's norms of what is acceptable behaviour of photographer's and there subject's.
I thought this discussion was about being harressed for taking photo on the street..? And how to deal with those types of situations..
And also it was about the society's norms of what is acceptable behaviour of photographer's and there subject's.