Stupid Hypo Clear question

[degruyl]

I have never used hypo clearing agent before, and decided to add it to my workflow. I have it all mixed as stock and understand that it is to be diluted 1+4 for use, which means (assumption) that I should use it once through.

Ok, I just can't find a technical publication on it. Therefore no instructions.

Here is what I am planning on using:
Dev
Stop (water)
Fix
Wash cycle

Wash cycle:
Fill with water, agitate 1 min
Fill with Hypo Clearing Agent working solution, agitate 1 min
Continuous rinse 5-10 min
Final rinse, photoflo enhanced distilled water.

Does anyone have comments or a better method? I doubt that anything I do can screw up the film by the time I get to rinse, but who knows?

 

[MartinP]

There isn't much point using it for film. With fibre-prints and traditional fixers it might be useful, but that is not your question.
🙂

EDIT: The main reason is that the film-base (or even resin-coated paper) does not absorb fixer like a fibre-based printing paper does, hence the washing 'problem' does not need to be solved.

 

[degruyl]

which is why I have not used it until now.

I had heard that it could reduce washing requirements...

I know, solving a problem which might not exist.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Martin's right. Pointless with film. You're also wasting water on the wash. With a NON-HARDENING fixer, use the Ilford wash sequence. Fill; invert 5 times; dump. Fill; invert 10x; dump. Fill; invert 20x; dump. The film is now washed to ANSI archival standard.

I next give 20 inversions in de-ionized water (I live in a very hard water area) and a minute in de-ionized water + half the recommended amount of wetting agent. Less than half is pointless; the full amount gives me drying marks.

This gives VERY clean archival negs.

Cheers.

R.

 

[sanmich]

Interesting...

Gentlemen, with all due respect, where do take the info that it is pointless with film?

Roger, how do you know that your film are "very clean and archival"

I rememeber a sequence from Ilford, including a 2 min rinse/ 2 min hypo clear, then full rinse, and that's what I use, but I have no idea how good it is, since on the archivability chapter, we will see the results only in decades from now.

BTW, I once had an interesting talk with an ingeneer in Kodak about this,
His conclusion was the following:

Remains of fix are harmfull, although they found that very liitle traces of fix actually help to protect the material against air pollution. He said that this could not be an applicable thing, and you can't control the right qty, and the risks of leaving hypo in the film are a much greater problem.

if your film is rightly processed, your next major problem is air pollution. Humidity and heat, by keeping the gelatin more porous, makes the problem bigger. To really, professionally cope with htis issue, there is a way with dessicant and freezing. It has it's issues too because of condensation. using a fridge has too much issues of humidity, and is dangerous to the films.
What I think I will once implement is to use an old fridge as a fire cabinet, and use good qtty of silicagel to lower humidity inside.
a wine cabinet could be another good option but of course more expensive.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Interesting...

Gentlemen, with all due respect, where do take the info that it is pointless with film?

Roger, how do you know that your film are "very clean and archival"

Very clean: Observation (effectively no spots and drying marks)

Archival: Extensive Ilford testing + my own residual silver testing with Kodak ST-1 and hypo testing with Kodak HT-2.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Warren]

I follow the basic instructions that come on the package and have zero problems.
-water 1 min
-hypo 1:4 for 2 min
-water 6 min

 

[FrankS]

30 sec water wash after dumping the fixer
2 min in hypo clear
4x 1 minute water wash cycles
final minute in deionized water with photoflo

 

[degruyl]

Just out of curiosity, do any of you do anything different with tmax?

Thanks for all the input, I appreciate it.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Just out of curiosity, do any of you do anything different with tmax?

Yes. Fix longer (maybe 4-6x clearing time) in order to remove residual sensitizing dye (same with Delta). A longer fix is much more efficacious and economical than longer washing.

Cheers,

R.

 

[degruyl]

Right, that is what I have been doing. Thanks again.

 

[sanmich]

Very clean: Observation (effectively no spots and drying marks)

Archival: Extensive Ilford testing + my own residual silver testing with Kodak ST-1 and hypo testing with Kodak HT-2.

Cheers,

R.

Thanks Roger,
Great to learn from first hand testing.🙂

It seems I over did it a bit, but it's better to know that I am on that side of the fence and not on the other one...

 

[rlouzan]

Non-hardening rapid fixer ( 2-3 x clearing time) + 20-30min wash time at 20C (depending on film ASA)

 

[bwcolor]

So, I'm getting that I don't need to use Hypo Clear with film, but my fixer is Kodafix, which is a fast-acting hardening fixer. How does this change the subsequent workflow vs. a non-hardening fixer?

 

[Roger Hicks]

So, I'm getting that I don't need to use Hypo Clear with film, but my fixer is Kodafix, which is a fast-acting hardening fixer. How does this change the subsequent workflow vs. a non-hardening fixer?

It needs washing for a lot longer. Why do you use a hardening fixer? There are plenty of non-hardening fixers that are just as fast. Few if any modern films, in anything resembling normal processing, need hardening. I've not used hardening fixers in decades.

Cheers,

R.

 

[bwcolor]

Thanks Roger.

I think that it is only my ignorance. I just picked up B&W film development. I had a darkroom in the late sixties and used hardening fixers, so I just bought a hardening fixer. This thread has been helpful. Thanks

 

[Roger Hicks]

Thanks Roger.

I think that it is only my ignorance. I just picked up B&W film development. I had a darkroom in the late sixties and used hardening fixers, so I just bought a hardening fixer. This thread has been helpful. Thanks

You are more than welcome. I'm glad you didn't take it as combative. I used hardening fixer in the 60s too, but gave it up in the 70s.

Cheers,

R.