Stupid rookie surprise.

Bob B

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Okay so I'm totally green and embarrassed about this.
I went and got a 50mm 1.5 CV Nokton lens for my Bessa R. Since there were lines for a 50mm I assumed it would work without an external viewfinder. I was both surprised and dissapointed that the bottom right corner of my big, beuatiful, clear viewfinder image gets blocked by the lens. I mean, part of my one week-old love affair with the camera is due to it's spacious viewfinder. Now to get shots with a 50mm, I kinda have to guess what's going to be in the frame. I really don't want any external vf just now.

I suppose I'll get used to this, but it seems weird. I'm curious how others have compensated for not seeing the entire photo in advance, (other than getting an SLR.) The guy at the camera store explained how many "real life" photographers have taken many famous photos with some of the VF blocked by the lens barrel.

Bob (rookie) B.
 
You do get used to it after a while, Bob. Unless you're really into very precise framing that is. And a fair number of RF photogs seem to be...

 
If someone is into precise framing, then RF cameras are not the best tool.

It's kind of like, if you usually fail on your first attempts at doing new things, it would be best not to take up sky-diiving.
 
One of the things that I've learned about photography is that it doesn't have to be a very precise art. Yeah, a nice clear shot of a sunset can be beautiful, but so can a completely accidental shot of an everyday thing. One of my favorite shots that I've taken myself was done using my Canonet pointed at the TV open at f/2.8 that I decided looked better in portrait than landscape. The result? An interesting multi-exposure-like effect, though underexposed.

blur.jpg
 
Bob B said:
Okay so I'm totally green and embarrassed about this.
I went and got a 50mm 1.5 CV Nokton lens for my Bessa R. Since there were lines for a 50mm I assumed it would work without an external viewfinder. I was both surprised and dissapointed that the bottom right corner of my big, beuatiful, clear viewfinder image gets blocked by the lens. I mean, part of my one week-old love affair with the camera is due to it's spacious viewfinder. Now to get shots with a 50mm, I kinda have to guess what's going to be in the frame. I really don't want any external vf just now.

I suppose I'll get used to this, but it seems weird. I'm curious how others have compensated for not seeing the entire photo in advance, (other than getting an SLR.) The guy at the camera store explained how many "real life" photographers have taken many famous photos with some of the VF blocked by the lens barrel.

Note, fellow RFFers, that he's not complaining so much about framing imprecision as about finder blockage. And yes, that IS something we all have to get used to -- at least, those of us who use fat, wide-aperture lenses.

What to do about it? I guess I've never really thought consciously about how I adjust. For a static scene, it isn't too hard to look at the composition with the camera away from your eye, then frame it using the visible parts as a reference and just remembering what was in the part that's now blocked by the lens.

For action shooting, it can be quite a bit tougher. That's one area in which cameras with 1:1 viewfinders -- such as the Canon VI and P, the Nikon S2, the Bessa R3a and the Epson R-D 1 -- have a big advantage: you can keep both eyes open, and the eye away from the finder sort of "fills in" the part of the image you can't see through the finder.

(The human brain is an amazing thing that way. Do you realize that you have a fairly large area where the optic nerve attaches, almost smack in the middle of your eye's retina, where you are absolutely stone blind? You're not consciously aware of this "blind spot" because the brain keeps track of what it sees and "fills in the blanks." As Leon Lederman observes in his book 'The God Particle,' we're able to juggle flaming torches and drive 100 mph on the autobahn even though a fair portion of what we think we see is really nothing more than a good guess.)

So if finder blockage still drives you crazy, what can you do? Well, one option is to get a skinnier and/or shorter lens. Want to swap your Nokton for a nice, svelte Canon 50mm f/1.8? I've got one to trade, and I'd like to have a Nokton -- but you'd be getting the short end of the stick financially, so I suggest you pass on this particular offer. Still, going to a less-obstructive lens -- which typically will be of slightly smaller maximum aperture and/or shorter focal length -- usually will reduce or eliminate finder blockage. I don't have a Bessa R anymore, but I do have an R2, which I believe is similar in finder architecture; the Canon 50/1.8 doesn't intrude into the 50mm frameline at all, even at its closest focusing distance.

So if you like wide-aperture lenses, finder blockage is something you just may have to learn to live with. If you can't live with it, you can avoid it by choosing your lenses carefully. If this is a big issue for you, you'll need to resign yourself to a 'try before you buy' policy to make sure the lenses you pick won't block the finder more than you can tolerate.

Finally, if it makes you feel any better, there are plenty of lens/camera combinations more sorely obstructed than yours. I'm attaching a picture taken through the viewfinder of my Canon 7s, with the 50mm f/0.95 lens mounted. Note that this honker blocks almost a THIRD of the 50mm frame -- and yes, I've taken shots in which totally unexpected objects are rearing up from the "dead zone" I couldn't see!
 
Bob B said:
Okay so I'm totally green and embarrassed about this.

Bob (rookie) B.

No reason to keep this as embarrassing, I I felt the same way when I mounted my Nokton on the R the first time . I got really upset, nobody had told me ever that this can happen and I personally frame quite carefully if there is enuff time for it , simply to avoid too much loss of format(=quality!) by cropping later.

The comments I got from the experienced guys at CVUG were partly similar to some of those I read here ( "don't care about exact framing , it does not work with a RF camera")and made me even MORE upset and for a while I kept this prob as serious enuff to change back to SLR again. 🙂

I got a bit wiser now and learned to love the RF style of shooting but for slides I want to project later ( not as a print source) RF is still not the right thing, a 95% finder of a SLR works better for that, leaving a bit space left to be covered later by theslide frame.


Best regards,

Bertram
 
Hmm, i also did not know about this, and I'm also quite surprised. And I could imagine that I would be seriously upset if I were in your shoes.

Strange, though. There ARE fast 50mm rf lenses that are not that big, think Sonnar 50/1.5 for the contaxes.
 
I have a jupiter 3 but Im not sure if its smaller than then nokton. It takes up a tiny bit of the finder on my zorki. Its no larger than a Jupiter 8 actually. I was surprised how compact and light it is considering its speed. I doupt the lens is as sharp as the nokton but it certainly has its own advantages.
 
Don't like viewfinder obstruction? Heh, just wait until you put a hood on your lens!

It doesn't bother me at all having used lots of 6x9 folding cameras where the lens is always in the frame. It's something you can easily get used to.

Not only that, if you can see the end of your lens in the viewfinder you can check to see you've actually removed the lens cap before you shoot. See, it's not a fault, but a feature! 😉
 
The Canon 50mm F0.95 takes up a lot of the Canon 7 viewfinder, but the 50mm F1.4 and 50mm F1.5 do not. If you do not like the viewfinder blockage on your Bessa, try a smaller lens. That 50mm F1.5 Nokton is huge compared to the Canon 50mm F1.5 or F1.8. And for Lens Hoods, get a vented hood so you can see through it.

The Jupiter-3 is small compared with the Nokton. Most lenses F1.4 and slower are smaller than the Nokton.
 
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Thanks Oljim, By any chance are you a software engineer for Microsoft <g>?

-bb



Not only that, if you can see the end of your lens in the viewfinder you can check to see you've actually removed the lens cap before you shoot. See, it's not a fault, but a feature! 😉[/QUOTE]
 
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