Summicron Itch

[Erik van Straten]

Summars are a bit like Summicrons, but the front lens is extremely soft, so hardly any Summar did survive in good condition. If a Summar is coated and the front lens is unscratched, it can be a jewel. I have two of these jewels.

gelatin silver print (summar 50mm f2) leica lll

Amsterdam, 2022

 

[chuckroast]

Exactly all the collapsible summicrons suffer from fog and they’re all bad performers.
Seventy years of encapsulation does this.

And once they are cleaned, they don’t suffer from fog anymore.
They also suddenly become great performers.

My sub-13 summicrons perform just as my sur-13 summicrons, that is: excellent.

Cleaning a collapsible summicron takes away a lot of crud! Just by looking at the front element of an summicron V1 it will appear as a mirror, which means its dirty. Once cleaned, the elements become crystal clear and transmit light through them instead of reflecting, abd refracting on the elements; a night and day difference.

Same for the summitars.

I could go on a round the workd trip with any if my collapsible summicrons, blindly picked, either sub or sur-13, they are just that good.

I'm sure you're right, but even after a CLA, my collapsible 'cron simply wasn't as contrasty as the more modern LTM 50mm Color-Skopar.

 

[chuckroast]

I did not do any scientific research ofcourse, but I came to this conclusion by studying pictures taken with these lenses. I know that Cartier-Bresson used a collapsible Summicron, he preferred it to the rigid Summicron. I did not know the number of his lens, so I tried one with a number started with "11". It was so bad that I could not believe it, even worse than a Summitar. I tried other collapsible Summicrons too. I often visited fairs where second-hand "photographica" were traded. These are the best places to quickly try out a lens. Every dealer allows this. Remember the number of the lens well. One day I tried a Collapsible Summicron in mint condition with a number started with "13" and when I had developed the film I was astonished, the results were so good. I had years of experience with a very good rigid Summicron. The rigid Summicrons can suffer from fog, but apart from a fogged or scratched one now and then I have never seen a bad one. However, this collapsible was at full aperture better than my rigid. I still have the lens and will not sell it.

This is a recent shot with the collapsible.

gelatin silver print (summicron 50mm f2 collapsible No. 13XXXXX at full aperture) leica lll

Frank B., 2024

View attachment 4845238

To my eye, this image is very sharp, but low in contrast. For example, there is very little tonal separation between the face and the clothing, and the white coffee cups are rendered as gray on my screen here.

Whether that is by choice in the printing process, or the negative was developed to a lower CI, or is inherent in the lens' performance is not clear, but my overall impression is that the image lacks separation in the midtones.

 

[Ororaro]

To my eye, this image is very sharp, but low in contrast. For example, there is very little tonal separation between the face and the clothing, and the white coffee cups are rendered as gray on my screen here.

Whether that is by choice in the printing process, or the negative was developed to a lower CI, or is inherent in the lens' performance is not clear, but my overall impression is that the image lacks separation in the midtones.

Looks like very fogged paper, and almost to the point of solarization

 

[Ororaro]

I'm sure you're right, but even after a CLA, my collapsible 'cron simply wasn't as contrasty as the more modern LTM 50mm Color-Skopar.

Will never be.
But it’s guaranteed more contrasty than pre-CLA

 

[Erik van Straten]

From incel to Hunk in 7 short years…

Hmm, 55 years of experience with photography and dirty lenses ... Just believe what you want to believe.

 

[Ororaro]

Hmm, 55 years of experience with photography and dirty lenses ... Just believe what you want to believe.

I appeciate your passion and relentless pursuit.

Dirty lenses? Like I said, every summicron V1 has terrible haze and very uniform.
Have you tried the flashlight test?

 

[Erik van Straten]

I appeciate your passion and relentless pursuit.

Dirty lenses? Like I said, every summicron V1 has terrible haze and very uniform.
Have you tried the flashlight test?

Mine has no haze whatsoever.

gelatin silver print (summicron 50mm f2 collapsible No. 13XXXXX) leica ll

Amsterdam, 2024

 

[Erik van Straten]

gelatin silver print (summicron 50mm f2 collapsible No. 13XXXXX) leica lll

C.d.R., Amsterdam, 2024

 

[Ororaro]

I was asking about the other summicron which you didn’t like, sub-11 serial number… has your 13xx ever been cleaned? It’s 70 years old after all…

 

[Erik van Straten]

I was asking about the other summicron which you didn’t like, sub-11 serial number… has your 13xx ever been cleaned? It’s 70 years old after all…

I bought the lens in 2006 I think. This is one of the first pictures I made with it. AFAIK it was never cleaned before that. No traces. My rigid was cleaned, but even my very competent repairman couldn't open that one without causing a little damage. The collapsible was clean and is still clean. I bought my rigid in 1979; it was clean, but ten years later it became suddenly fogged.

gelatin silver print (summicron 50mm f2 collapsible (No. 13XXXXX) leica mp

Athens, 2006