Summitar 50mm F2 - Need Insights

[Liquid Fusion]

Unlike the Leica Elmar - where you can easily remove the nameplate to clean the inside of the lens ,
this photo shows a continuous unbroken smooth surface all around 1st element nameplate.

Wonder if the Arrows might indicate the point where 2 CLA (Large) wrenches might open the Summitar 50mm Front Lens Group
by unscrewing the outermost ring to open the Summitar Front Lens group?

 

[JP Owens]

Sounds like an inexpensive lens has turned into an expensive lens. But, you are buying a Summitar disassembly experience for the money.

 

[Liquid Fusion]

Reference
IId) Gauss-Typ mit verkitteter Frontlinse - Summitar-Typ
Dieser aufwendige Typ kam in den 50'er Jahren bisweilen vor - heute selten (7-Linser) - hauptsächlich für SLR-Linsen mit hoher Lichtstärke (1.4)

Leitz Summitar 2.0/50mm - 1939 - Max Berek
7 Elemente/ 4 Gruppen - Summar mit vergrössertem, verkittetem Frontelement

 

[Liquid Fusion]

Sounds like an inexpensive lens has turned into an expensive lens. But, you are buying a Summitar disassembly experience for the money.

Great experience. Still low cost: 117.00 Lens + 35.00 CLA wrench = 152.00. Might have to buy a 2nd CLA wrench to have 2 large ones to try to open the outermost "ring." Total cost then = 187.00. Doing a PRO CLA will be expensive: 125.00 to 200.00. Considering a good quality "used" lens might cost 300.00 to 400.00, I still have room to go. If I can access the front lens group, that will save huge with a PRO CLA - if that is needed. What's fun, is reading Google translations from Chinese on how they repair Summitar lenses!! Then again, there is the possibility, that the "mark" is on the inside of the 1st lens element: cleaning this, the lens will be in decent shape.

 

[Sid836]

In here it seems that the front doublet gets separated by unscrewing them as you have shown.

 

[Liquid Fusion]

In here it seems that the front doublet gets separated by unscrewing them as you have shown.

Nikos!! Thanks!!! Buying the 2nd CLA wrench!!!

 

[fer_fdi]

brave man!

 

[aoresteen]

Glad things are working out for you. When I buy a used LTM lens I assume that I will have to have it cleaned. I just work it into my cost model. I get 8 years between cleanings so I divide the cla cost by 8 and and it to the cost. The other 7/8s are just the cost of using a classic Leica 🙂 .

I send my lenses to Don Goldberg and let him deal with it. Well worth the expense.

Enjoy your Summitar! I had one but sold it to help pay for a Zeiss ZM Planar 50mm f/2.0

 

[Liquid Fusion]

Glad things are working out for you. When I buy a used LTM lens I assume that I will have to have it cleaned. I just work it into my cost model. I get 8 years between cleanings so I divide the cla cost by 8 and and it to the cost. The other 7/8s are just the cost of using a classic Leica 🙂 . I send my lenses to Don Goldberg and let him deal with it. Well worth the expense. Enjoy your Summitar! I had one but sold it to help pay for a Zeiss ZM Planar 50mm f/2.0

Status: Waiting for 2nd CLA wrench (need two CLA Wrenches to gently / evenly torque open the 1st lens group). Very good advice. Just saw it now!! Opened the Summitar and looked inside. Gently tried to clean the inner lens below the aperture blades. Aperture blades fully open. Suddenly, some of the anti reflective black paint from around the inner edge at the top of the lens below the aperture came loose and fell onto the inner lens. Carefully collected the pieces of paint and stored them away.

Won't know until I shoot with the lens - will loss of anti reflective paint around the edge of the lower inner lens affect photos? Has anyone here removed this anti-reflective black paint as well?

 

[02Pilot]

I've had flaking paint on a few lenses over the years. I just remove anything that's loose, then apply new paint in the needed spots. I use flat black paint made for scale models, which has worked just fine. I've heard of people also using black Sharpies, which would probably help some but is not opaque. I wouldn't leave the area unpainted - too many opportunities for stray light to scatter through the glass.

 

[Liquid Fusion]

I've had flaking paint on a few lenses over the years. I just remove anything that's loose, then apply new paint in the needed spots. I use flat black paint made for scale models, which has worked just fine. I've heard of people also using black Sharpies, which would probably help some but is not opaque. I wouldn't leave the area unpainted - too many opportunities for stray light to scatter through the glass.

Thanks!!! 2nd CLA wrench is in NYC @ post office - all the way from China in 13 days. Can't wait to open the front lens group and see if the "fingerprint" / balsam is on the inside of the 1st element lens. Re: painting the exposed edges. Have steady hands. Know to have aperture fully open and to be careful about not disturbing the blades. It will be like brain surgery. (Former premed / turned indie rock producer - used to operate on live rat brains doing transplant surgery experiments years ago in Texas. Yes, many lived to tell the tale, and often tried to bite your fingers as well.) This entire op is a challenge to me: within reason - 1) find a way to open this difficult lens and apply black paint to the edges where it's fallen off and 2) know when to stop and send it to a pro lens shop. So far, it's still a go in the "proceed carefully and do it" department. Even after I open this lens, I might still send it in to be CLA'd. The difficult part of opening all will be done. The part(s) that need to be cleaned will be accessible. And known. With the help of all of you, if I can do the job, this will be amazing!!! An experience, No matter what. Stay tuned!!!

 

[Liquid Fusion]

Can't open the outer lens. Won't budge. What do you suggest? Tried adding lighter fluid to the side to loosen rust. Possibly its cemented tight. Boil the outer lens group in water? Then cool and try to open?

 

[Liquid Fusion]

Put front lens group in pot of water. Boiled Front Lens Group - let cool - tried to unscrew outer lens. Repeated 3X. Glass is super clean - where not covered by melted balsam. Can't open the front lens group. You'd think 3X boiling might remove any cement. Coating is boiled off. If someone could open this lens group. Clean these lenses. Apply new balsam. Carefully fit the glass back into the metal housing - it might be good as new. Photo in the forum shows it can be done. My lens must be the exception!! See what happens...

Who can open the front couplet? Any suggestions?

 

[Liquid Fusion]

Tried to open outer ring. No success. Put Front lens group back into lens. Tried to remove it carefully. Outer ring opened!! Here it is.

Front element is couplet. Possible 2nd element as well. "Fingerprint" Mark - found on the front of the 2nd element!!! Boiling then cleaning - then swirling gently using small circles w/QTips dabbed w/soap then water - did the job. As Gus mentioned, front lens edges are now slightly marred. All reflective paint / lens coatings are history. Glass is very clean. No haze / fungus.

Need to find one who can open the front couplet!!! The story never ends.... What would you do now?

 

[xya]

I'm new here. I have the same lens with a similar problem. I also got the front pair off, the rest of the lens is impeccable. it seems as if the the small dark metal ring seen from the back is retaining the lens pair. any ideas how to get it off? is it threaded?

 

[Jack Conrad]

What ever you do, don't boil your front lens group. 🙂

 

[Mr_Flibble]

In the Summar and Summitar the elements and groups are peened into their mounts. That is, the metal part was turned on a lathe with a thin metal flange sticking out. The element or group was put in, and then the thin flange was bent down (peened) over it. To get the element or group out, you have to chuck the metal part in a lathe, and cut off the peened-over edge.

As I said a half a ago; not a DIY job

 

[xya]

thanks for the answers. I will try not to boil the group. it has separation and I have already de- and re-cemented lenses with some success.

I understand about peening. but in this case the black metal ring is conical, the wider side is towards the chromed metal part. it looks more as if the couplet has been inserted from the other side into a slightly crimped conical ring and then lens and ring have been fixed to the chrome part.

peened or not, another question arises: how is the black metal ring fixed to the chromed metal part?

I have made a close-up of it:

anyway: suggestions for a pro to do such work at reasonable prices would be welcome. I live in france.

 

[xya]

no ideas? no suggestions? nobody?