Sunny 16 OK, but what about typical brightnesses?

[VinceC]

>>Are we talking about the same 'black' and 'white'? I mean that both objects are in the same light conditions! So it's just about the amount of light they reflect.

Yes. Black-and-white is especially helpful to understand this. The classic idea that, if you over-expose a black wall, it will look white. Negative film should record about 7 stops between black and white. What you're trying to do is to match up the mid-tone gray of the film with the middle brightness of the scene you're photographing.

And are we talking the same 'stop' as well? I'm refering to what my (spot)meter would tell me when metering the object. So I don't see what you mean by 'stops on film' and 'stops to the eye'?<<

The eye is more sensitive to differences in tone. You can see "deeper" into the shadows than most film can, for example. Light meters like your spot meter are nearly always calibrated to measure middle gray, the midpoint between black and white. A spot meter is actually useful for seeing the differences in object.

Put a black coat and white football (soccer ball) on the grass in the sun. Use the spot meter to measure each one's brightness. You'll probably see a five to seven stop difference. Now point the spot meter at the grass and you'll probably get a mid-point reading in between the two.

The beauty of sunny-16 is that you ignore the blackness of the coat the whiteness of the ball and the grayness of the grass. If it's a sunny day, the exposure is f/16 (f/22 at the beach).

 

[vicmortelmans]

Put a black coat and white football (soccer ball) on the grass in the sun. Use the spot meter to measure each one's brightness. You'll probably see a five to seven stop difference. Now point the spot meter at the grass and you'll probably get a mid-point reading in between the two.

I had no idea that just the color of the object impacts the range that much... but after thinking this through, it does make sense.

As a side-remark, I think the most difficult subject to shoot are black-furred animals, typical for e.g. cats, dogs or monkeys. It's very hard to get any detail in their body shapes or expressions, without blowing out all of the background. It's like an astronomer taking a picture of a black hole.

Groeten,

Vic

 

[Kin Lau]

As a side-remark, I think the most difficult subject to shoot are black-furred animals, typical for e.g. cats, dogs or monkeys. It's very hard to get any detail in their body shapes or expressions, without blowing out all of the background.

Fill-flash.

 

[VinceC]

>>Fill-flash.<<

Kin's right. Also reflectors (you see them used a lot in movies).

There's also just the importance of appreciating light as a tool. In so many situations, the light is just wrong for the subject. Like those black furry animals. That allows you to appreciate when the early evening sunlight is hitting the black furry animal at just the right angle, giving it texture and contrast that is usually absent.

 

[einolu]

i vote this one of the most useful rff threads i have read in the past few weeks. good stuff here!

 

[rbiemer]

I have and use the Black Cat guide referenced above and it works well for me.
There is also this excellent page of info:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3464
Rob

 

[shadowfox]

i vote this one of the most useful rff threads i have read in the past few weeks. good stuff here!

... munch, munch... agreed!... I'm chewing on the new information I got from this thread...

Also, what surprises me about shooting meterless is how infrequent I had to use the EV chart. My brain seems to automatically goes to work on relative estimation for the next shot.

Before actually shooting meterless, I envisioned that I'll be constantly referencing the EV chart for every shot, which sounds troublesome. But in reality, I consulted the chart only once or twice when I goes from outdoor to indoor.

 

[HansDerHase]

Sunny with sharp shadows f16
Sunny with soft shadows f11
Sunny with almost no shadow f8
Daylight with no shadow f5.6

Open up the aperture one stop for sidelighting, and two stops for backlighting.

This is pretty much the most usefull set of rules. Everything beyond this is too complicated, unsless of course you are about to photgraph landscape and have too much time.

My rule number 1 for guesstimated exposure btw. is:

Use medium speed color neg. film. (Like Fujis Superia 200 for example - It's also cheap when you get it rebranded).

What? Three stops off? .. Hah .. No problem. I can still get a usable print. (I'm not one of those fine art dudes though)

 

[VinceC]

Originally Posted by ClaremontPhoto
Sunny with sharp shadows f16
Sunny with soft shadows f11
Sunny with almost no shadow f8
Daylight with no shadow f5.6
Open up the aperture one stop for sidelighting, and two stops for backlighting.
....
This is pretty much the most usefull set of rules.

Agreed. But the more accurate rule for side and back-light is:

Open up 1.5 stops for sidelilghting and three stops for backlighting.

 

[RayPA]

Typical brightness?

Where I live (Holland, 51 degrees Northern Lattitude) the conditions are mostly such that I get a reading of about F8..

In fact, 1/125@f8 is the default setting I use in ordinary conditions. I'll open up two steps in the shade. I'll only close down one step from f8 when the sun is at its brightest midsummer around noon..

I agree. Know your local light first before applying blanket exposure rules, espcially starting points. The best way to become an expert on your local light is to walk around with an incident light-meter and meter, meter, meter (even when you're shooting). Meter in every light situation. Pretty soon you'll be able to guess the readings and know exactly how many stops to open and close. You'll probably find that the general rules for adjustment are pretty accurate, but it's the starting point that's important.

🙂

 

[robin a]

Yes it is,now for the partially confused,where does shutter speed come into play?I know the "sunny 16" rule,but using f5.6 &f8 threw me.Still at film speed for shutter speed,right. Thanks in Advance..........Robin

 

[robin a]

i vote this one of the most useful rff threads i have read in the past few weeks. good stuff here!

OOPs,this is the thread I was answering....Robin

 

[VinceC]

Yes. Shutter speed is the one closest to film speed in ISO.

 

[Xmas]

Typical brightness?

Where I live (Holland, 51 degrees Northern Lattitude) the conditions are mostly such that I get a reading of about F8..

In fact, 1/125@f8 is the default setting I use in ordinary conditions. I'll open up two steps in the shade. I'll only close down one step from f8 when the sun is at its brightest midsummer around noon..

Yep here it is the f/6.3 rule, we are still in the dark ages.

Noel

 

[RML]

film iso100 - f16 - 1/125sec.
film iso100 - f8 - 1/60sec.
film iso100 - f5.6 - 1/30sec.

film iso200 - f16 - 1/250sec

film iso400 - f16 - 1/500sec

film iso800 - f16 - 1/1000sec

etc.

 

[doitashimash1te]

film iso100 - f16 - 1/125sec.
film iso100 - f8 - 1/60sec.
film iso100 - f5.6 - 1/30sec.

IMHO, the settings for 1/60 and 1/30 should be:

film iso100 - f22 - 1/60sec.
film iso100 - f32 - 1/30sec.

or?

 

[RML]

IMHO, the settings for 1/60 and 1/30 should be:

film iso100 - f22 - 1/60sec.
film iso100 - f32 - 1/30sec.

or?

Nope. You're absolutely right.
My bad. All I can say is that I worked 18 hours yesterday and had a full day today as well. 😛

 

[jtzordon]

I like the ultimate exposure calculator, myself. I find open shade is at F4 for me and a very well shaded area is about F2. This has seemed to work even with the rising and setting sun. I would recommend you spend some time metering different conditions in your area to fine-tune your guess-timation.

 

[vicmortelmans]

Hi,

last weeks I kept an eye on my meter and the 'shady 5.6 rule' seems to work out pretty well!

But now I have another question. I shot an indoor shot of a subject that was in direct sunlight, but the light entered throug a window. I exposed at sunny 16, but the shot was underexposed.

Then I started thinking about this and realised that having light entering through a window is the same shooting with a filter in front of the lens... you're putting a piece of glass inbetween the light source and the camera and that absorbs some light.

Any filter will give a light loss of at least half a stop up to several stops for colored filters, polaroid filters, etc.

So that may very well be another rule: increase exposure by one or two stops for indoor shots, even if the subject is in direct sunlight (through a window). Certainly of importance in e.g. modern buildings that tend to have lots of glass, but of a special material that absorbs quite some light for climat control.

More thoughts on this rule?

Groeten,


Vic

 

[vicmortelmans]

Hi,

last weeks I kept an eye on my meter and the 'shady 5.6 rule' seems to work out pretty well!

But now I have another question. I shot an indoor shot of a subject that was in direct sunlight, but the light entered throug a window. I exposed at sunny 16, but the shot was underexposed.

Then I started thinking about this and realised that having light entering through a window is the same shooting with a filter in front of the lens... you're putting a piece of glass inbetween the light source and the camera and that absorbs some light.

Any filter will give a light loss of at least half a stop up to several stops for colored filters, polaroid filters, etc.

So that may very well be another rule: increase exposure by one or two stops for indoor shots, even if the subject is in direct sunlight (through a window). Certainly of importance in e.g. modern buildings that tend to have lots of glass, but of a special material that absorbs quite some light for climat control.

More thoughts on this rule?

Groeten,


Vic