Super Ikonta C - CLA in Switzerland or Germany?

[Avispartner]

Hi folks!

Well the fever seriously got me: Besides my Nettars 515/16 and 517/16, I have very recently received an Ikonto 520/2 and just today a Super Ikonta 530/2 (or Super Ikonta C, I believe they are also called) with a Tessar 105mm/f4.5.

It's dusty, the door jams slightly when trying to open, bellows are in good condition and the shutter works (although 1sek seems a bit slow) and the self-timer needs an overhaul, but hey, I won the bid at roughly USD 50, so not too bad 😀.

Talking of overhaul: does anyone know a reliable Super Ikonta specialist who could cla the shutter for me? Possibly in Switzerland or Germany?

Or are there good CLA instructions available somewhere so I could give it a try myself?

Cheers,
Rob

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Talking of overhaul: does anyone know a reliable Super Ikonta specialist who could cla the shutter for me.

If its the shutter, anyone who can cla a Synchro-Compur shutter might be willing to cla yours. I did all the Bessa's myself, it is quite easy once you can get off the front blade of the shutter (of course the Ikonta has the split prism attached to it, but seems no problem to get that off the shutter assembly).

for USD 50 I would certainly give it a try myself. Once opened you pour in some drops of lighter-fluid, rinse out the fluid with the old grease. Once dry, put in some very light watch oil on the parts that need a little oil (with a tooth pick). Your shutter will run nicely again for some years at all speed!

Oh, and don't get any of the oil on the shutterblades!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29504544@N08/5090256464/lightbox/

http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-55.html

http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-88.html

http://www.rolandandcaroline.co.uk/synchro-compur.html

 

[nksyoon]

Try Claudio Fabio in Oberrieden. Serviced my M3 and Rolleiflex 2.8f, although later a Rollei specialist said he didn't do it right.

http://www.camera-service.ch/

 

[graywolf]

If its the shutter, anyone who can cla a Synchro-Compur shutter might be willing to cla yours. I did all the Bessa's myself, it is quite easy once you can get off the front blade of the shutter (of course the Ikonta has the split prism attached to it, but seems no problem to get that off the shutter assembly).

for USD 50 I would certainly give it a try myself. Once opened you pour in some drops of lighter-fluid, rinse out the fluid with the old grease. Once dry, put in some very light watch oil on the parts that need a little oil (with a tooth pick). Your shutter will run nicely again for some years at all speed!

Oh, and don't get any of the oil on the shutterblades!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29504544@N08/5090256464/lightbox/

http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-55.html

http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-88.html

http://www.rolandandcaroline.co.uk/synchro-compur.html

That is, I am affraid, bad advice. The only proper way to service a leaf shutter is to disasemble it.

For instance, oil is only supposed to go in the pivots. Certain sliding cam parts should be greased. In both cases the amount of lubricant to use is incredibly small. You can not be sure of getting the lubes only where they should be without disassembling the shutter. No lube, is better than too much, by the way.

Grit and corrosion are the killers of shutters, just squirting lighter fluid into it will temporarily soften the old lubricants. Thus making it seem like the shutter is fixed, but it is like pouring oatmeal in you cars radiator to fix a leak. To make it worse the grit gets moved around into places it can cause worse problems. Unfortunately, a lot of dealers do just that and claim the camera was CLA'ed.

A properly, serviced leaf shutter, at least all the ones I have worked on, is accurate to 1/6th of a stop; note that is not plus/minus, it is 1/6th stop period.

So if you plan on using the camera for anything more than a shelf queen, get it done right.

If you are interested in what it takes, I have an copy of the factory service manual, annotated by me, for an older (the info I added about paper insulators applies to pre-war shutters only) Graphex shutter on my website: http://www.graywolfphoto.com/presscameras/graphex.html

 

[abumac]

The best place for Zeiss:

http://www.kamera-restauration.de/

 

[murpograph]

CLA Super-Ikonta

CLA Super-Ikonta

Yes Uwe Kersten is the man.

regards

Udo

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

The only proper way to service a leaf shutter is to disassemble it.
http://www.graywolfphoto.com/presscameras/graphex.html

If you want to ruin your shutter, I would follow this advice of graywolf.
No serious repair man will ever do that to just cla a shutter, and certainly not worth doing a disassemble - taking hours of work - on a camera worth USD 50 .. talking about bad advice....

 

[Avispartner]

Well, I bought the camera for only USD 50, but I guess it is technically in a better shape than just another USD 50 cam.

I'm rather new into folders and have never cla'd one myself and I don't really know if I would do it correctly. I guess I'm fine with servicing the exterior parts like leatherette etc., but I am a right now a bit reluctant to service a shutter, given the fact that I've never done this before.

I therefore might give it to one of the proposed guys (Uwe's website has exactly what I was looking for, so I might send it to him) and get a cheap cam instead where I can practice to cla without having to fear of ruining a nice cam...

Thanks for all your hints, proposal and links, will post as soon as I know what I'm actually going to do.

Cheers from Switzerland
Rob

 

[graywolf]

If you want to ruin your shutter, I would follow this advice of graywolf.
No serious repair man will ever do that to just cla a shutter, and certainly not worth doing a disassemble - taking hours of work - on a camera worth USD 50 .. talking about bad advice....

It takes an experienced person about one hour to properly service a shutter (First time took 4 hours, but I was triple checking everything I did). I have never actually had to adjust the individual speeds as that was done at the factory, and is unlikely to need it redone unless some idiot tinkered with them.

Of course, I am an experienced electro/mechanical technician who has worked on everything from wrist watches to bulldozers, and built prototype industrial robots, so I do have a clue about what I am talking about.

If anyone wants to double check what I am saying, just look at the websites of the good repair shops and notice that they make a point to point out they totally disassemble the shutter in a CLA. They do usually lie about how long it takes, no one is going to spend a day and a half working on your camera for $150. If they have all the parts at hand, it takes about three hours to completely overhaul a very complex camera, like say a Rolleiflex. If parts have to be fabricated, the time and cost goes up like a rocket. It also takes a lot longer to work on something they are not familiar with, so some of them refuse to do it, and others consider it a training experience and do not charge for the extra time.

People who do not know how to do something always seem to think it is way easier, or way more difficult than it is.

 

[graywolf]

Let me add that a lot of camera repair people out there are tinkerers that have no formal training, and some of them seem to have never even read a book about camera repair. There is an immense amount of misinformation on the subject out here on the web. One can always do what they want to their own cameras, but it is a shame that some of them will do it to your camera too.

Also, fixing old things can sometime wind up being a repair of cascade failures. A cascade failure is where something went wrong and was not fixed in time to prevent it from damaging something else, and so on. When that happens it is often a case of having to fix one thing to even find out that something else is wrong. Those types of things are not worth fixing, only you sometimes have a lot of time and money into it before you realize that. Luckily cascade failures is not real common on mechanical stuff, but it is often prevalent with electronics.

 

[Guest]

Do what I did, email Zeiss in Germany and they will send you a list of people.

 

[Avispartner]

I've actually emailed Uwe Kersten of kamera-restauration.de yesterday. He answered back already this morning and gave me a rough estimate of EUR 150-200 for a complete technical servicing. This is several times more than I paid for the camera, but I guess it'll be worth it.

He tells me that I have one of the early ones of this series and dates it back to 1934. So the camera is roughly of the same age as my parents are...

I'm going on vacation in a month and don't want to spend the money before, but I'm going to send him the camera somewhen in summer.

Thanks again for your advice.

Cheers from Switzerland
Rob

PS: Might also send a mail to Zeiss, just out of interest.

 

[Jack Conrad]

This is sort of a funny coincidence. I just found and bought the same version of Super Ikonta C 530/2 today that you got a few days ago. It even has the same f4.5 Tessor lens. The Germans must have grown these cameras on trees... 🙂 This one has the shutter button on the body, but no X- sync. It's pre-war, but maybe a year or so newer than yours.

Mine was just a little more expensive though. $75

I've been tinkering with it and cleaning the externals and I think it's in pretty good shape. The slow speeds seem a bit slow below about 1/8, but exercising the shutter seems to be helping.
The self timer works well and the glass is mostly clear, with maybe a little haze around the outer edges. I should probably clean it, but for the first roll, nah.

I love the range finder on this thing, but it has the yellowed albada finder that can barely be seen through. Oh well, not much of a complaint if it shoots ok.
I'm gonna load it and find out tomorrow.
For the moment I don't think it needs a CLA, woohoo! but I've been wrong plenty of times before. 😱

Anyway, I never thought I'd find a Super Ikonta in a local thrift shop here in the hinterlands of lower rural suburbia. And purchased at Photo-Plait in Paris, no less. I only know that because it has a metal advert plate attached to the camera. Cool...

 

[Jack Conrad]

Oh, I forgot to ask. How does one attach a tripod to these cameras? It has two tripod mount openings, portrait and landscape, that are too big for standard screw ins. 😕

 

[Avispartner]

You will need a converter bush from 1/4" to 3/8" that you can either screw onto your tripod head or into the screw-in socket on the camera.

I have a pack of 10 from Hama that cost close to nothing, just like these here: http://cgi.ebay.ch/10-Stck-HAMA-Ubergewinde-Converter-bush-9-5-6-35mm-/380336906720?pt=Filmnachbearbeitung&hash=item588dd8a1e0

Should not be a problem of finding the.

So, I'll try to go shooting a bit with my old gems, as weather is wonderfull today, bright sunny f16!

Cheers from wonderful Switzerland.
Rob

 

[Jack Conrad]

Thanks Avispartner, and have fun with your new C. I know I will.