Super Ikonta dilemma

[steamer]

Just bought a Super Ikonta A (531) from ebay described as: Cosmetically, mechanically and optically this camera is in GREAT condition and CLEAN as well. The shutter and aperture work. This is a very nice old working camera!

The description is pretty much true, the rangefinder is dim but, dead on, and the shutter speeds seem good. As for the bad; the lens has fungus on internal elements that can be seen when you hold it up to the light and the aperture is so stiff it can't be moved by hand outside of between f8-5.6

I could send it back and lose out on 60 bucks postage or keep it and get it fixed for probably at least 200 dollars. I'm pretty broke but leaning toward getting it fixed. I'm all thumbs when it comes to fixing cameras myself so I'll have to send it out.

What would you do?

 

[lshofstra]

You have my sympathy. As I understand fungus can be impossible to get rid of once it has been there a while. Apparently it etches coating (if present). So if you decide to send it off for repair make sure that whoever you send it to confirms that it's fixable. Mind you, even all thumbs you could probably have a go at cleaning the lens, they're simple to take apart, and decide on the basis of how that bit works out...

 

[literiter]

With a cleaning and lubrication your camera will in all likelyhood be pretty good. Older cameras often have the issues you refer to.

The scary thing can be a hole in the bellows which is fairly rare in Ikontas but not unheard of.

All older cameras should be cleaned and lubricated when received just as a matter of course. Some of those things have been sitting around for quite a few years.

The issue of the fungus may not be too severe once cleaned, and if severe may result in a loss of contrast. If the lens has a factory coating the fungus may have etched itself pretty well into the elements, but if uncoated likely not too much. (only my personal experience) It may not be fungus either, but merely crud from condensation on the inner elements. No big deal either way. I have a number of Super Ikonta Cs and Bs. All required service.

I have found that it really improves the image to use a lens hood with these cameras it helps with contrast immensely. Ikontas I'm afraid are difficult to fit with hoods. They are scarce and tend to fall off occasionally.

The camera could be over 60 years old and bound to have some problems.

But, if you keep the camera and have the issues dealt with as well as possible you will really have something. These cameras are small when folded but really big when the negatives and prints come back.

Why not post an image of your camera? Lets have a look.

 

[wallace]

No no Kreckel!

 

[Windscale]

Ebay is full of crooks. I much prefer to pay more and buy from a shop.

 

[furcafe]

I would just get it fixed/cleaned. Surely there must be someone in Japan, land of the camera geek(s), who can do a great job on your Super Ikonta.

 

[steamer]

Well first I shot a roll of Velvia with all the crap on the lens elements, results were OK, now I've cleaned the lens as best I could and am running a roll of T-max 100 through it, well see what happens. So far I like it, guess I will get it fixed someday. There are no doubt places in Tokyo that can fix it, the problem is they are hell expensive, and if I send out of the country adds about 70 bucks postage to the cost. For the time being I'll just use it as is.

 

[jan normandale]

you might browse Matt Denton's page for some general advice on camera maintenance.

 

[Ben Blacket]

If you buy an old camera that you plan to use, always factor in the cost of a full service/CLA. You're better off buying from a seller who admits the camera is missing a part, needs a service, or has a cosmetic flaw. This scares off collectors or those who expect a perfectly working camera & keeps the price down. The camera tech is likely to have the missing part. Anyway, it's always handy to have a backup camera to be used for parts - once a tech has to start machining, it becomes costly.

 

[FallisPhoto]

What would you do?

1. Do not make any more adjustments to the aperture until you can get it cleaned. Forcing something that's stuck is one of several easy ways to break a camera so it is beyond repair.

2. Before doing anything else, clean the lenses with a 50/50 mix of drugstore hydrogen peroxide and ammonia. This will literally melt away the fungus, almost instantly, and let you see if the glass has been etched. If it has, then there is not much point in going any farther. If not, then by all means send it off for a CLA. Personally, I'd recommend Essex Camera, in New Jersey. Their service is good and their prices are reasonable.

 

[steamer]

Thanks for your replies, took the lens apart as far as I could without disassembling the shutter and aperture and cleaned the mold with ponds cold cream and then some alcohol based lens cleaner, the aperture really only moves freely between 8 and 11 so been using it like that, have a few frames left of T-max 100 to shoot and then I'll know what i've got. So far it is a lot of fun to use, missed a few shots when I forgot the shutter release is on the left but no big deal.

Maybe I'll have to check with essex if I can't find a reasonable place in Japan for a cla or overhaul.

 

[FallisPhoto]

Thanks for your replies, took the lens apart as far as I could without disassembling the shutter and aperture and cleaned the mold with ponds cold cream and then some alcohol based lens cleaner, the aperture really only moves freely between 8 and 11 so been using it like that, have a few frames left of T-max 100 to shoot and then I'll know what i've got. So far it is a lot of fun to use, missed a few shots when I forgot the shutter release is on the left but no big deal.

Maybe I'll have to check with essex if I can't find a reasonable place in Japan for a cla or overhaul.

What kind of a shutter does it have? Maybe I can walk you through a simplified CLA.

 

[steamer]

Hmmm I've rebuilt car engines but when it comes to cameras I'm all thumbs. Anyway it's a compur rapid. Lead on.

This just in: Developed the roll of Tmax shot after cleaning the lens, negs are drying and look great, will post some scans later.

 

[steamer]

Nothing really in sharp focus, and a lot of junk on the negs

This one was probably the sharpest

I posted some larger size ones to my flickr

 

[FallisPhoto]

Hmmm I've rebuilt car engines but when it comes to cameras I'm all thumbs. Anyway it's a compur rapid. Lead on.

Well, if it's a Compur Rapid then I can do better than that. http://pheugo.com/cameras/index.php?page=compur&WEBMGR=eb2f1ff38e766a3e7bb48b77588c0f75

Here's what you are going to need:
1. A lens wrench, like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/Spanner-Wrench-...ryZ30038QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
2. A sharp pointed set of tweezers, like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/Diamond-Tweezer...ryZ34089QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
3. a set of small screwdrivers, like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Computer-Wa...ryZ20769QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
4. a can of naptha (lighter fluid)
5. a small artist's watercolor brush
6. a big box of cotton swabs (you'll go through a LOT of them)
7. a white china marker
8. A small bottle of Nye watch oil or Hoppes gun oil and a needle.

Now about what to do.
1. remove the shutter from the camera. Open the back of the camera and you'll see two rings surrounding the rear lens element. The outermost of these will detach the shutter from the bellows. Take this ring off, using your lens wrench. Remove any screws holding the shutter to the front standard.
2. Using your lens wrench again, remove the lenses from the shutter. They just unscrew. First, mark the position of the front lens group and middle lens element in relation to each other. This will save you from having to recalibrate the lens afterward. A white china marker works well for this. Now clean the lenses.
3. At this point, you're going to attempt to flush clean the diaphragm. Simply dip it into the lighter fluid, let it soak for a minute or two and then pull it out and let it drip. See if the diaphragm blades will move now. If they do, just continue doing this about 20 times, finishing up with clean lighter fluid. This will remove all the old dried up lube. The diaphragm and shutter blades are designed to run dry, and they will work fine like this. If the diaphragm still won't work, you have something jammed in there somewhere and will have to follow the instructions in that link all the way to the bitter end to find it and get it out.
4. to finish up with the shutter, you are going to need to clean the shutter blades a little better and lube the gearing for the shutter speeds. You are already at the point where you can get at the shutter blades, so let's do that first. Assuming your diaphragm opens now, open it, soak one end of a cotton swab with naptha and mop it over the shutter blades, on both sides. Work the blades a few times and mop it up again with the dry end of the swab. Repeat at least 50 times. Set the shutter aside to dry out. Once it is dry (takes a few hours) test it and be sure it is working right and the speeds are snappy.
5. Remove the shutter speed ring (as shown in the link). Stop here. That's as far as you need to go. At this point, you have access to the shutter speed gearing. Scrub it out with naptha and that artist's brush.
6. When it is dry, take a needle and lift some tiny droplets of oil (be VERY stingy with the oil) and lube the gears. Oil only the pivot points and do it very lightly. You'll want to use Nye watch oil or Hoppes gun oil for this (thin oils that don't spread a lot). The oil you are replacing was probably whale oil.
7. Reassemble the camera. You're done. It is cleaned and lubricated (two thirds of a CLA). If the speeds need adjustment then I'd suggest you send it to a competent repairman, because that is going to be beyond you.