Takeup spool play in older folders?

[Dante_Stella]

I have a Konica Pearl II. The film spools are held in by spring tension (you push up and in on the takeup spool, which flexes a spring at the top of the camera, put the bottom of the spool over the winding key and let it down. All of this is functioning as designed.

But as designed, both spools have about 2mm play up and down. The top numb that holds the spool is stepped. A big step and then a smaller pin that fits into the hole in the spool. The "play" in the takeup spool is riding up and down between the winding key (bottom) and the pin. It exists with plastic and metal spools - and from my examination of the camera, there is nothing worn or out of place in the film retention mechanism. And no, this camera does not take 620.

Yesterday, I had a roll of TMX120 jam in the camera after 10 frames. Essentially, it did not wind tight onto the takeup, the spool rose (within its play), and the winding key (no gearing or anything - connects directly to the knob on the bottom) basically wore a groove in the bottom of the plastic spool.

1. Is this jamming or up-down movement a common problem with newer, thicker-based films? Or was this some kind of fluke? The last time I really shot a lot with folders, it was with VP, which is considerably thinner than TMX.

2. What's the solution? I'm guessing something like a washer on the pin, above the spool? There really aren't that many options.

Thanks
Dante

 

[rover]

Any takers for this question?

 

[RichL]

1) I had a similar jambing /tracking problem on a duo-six 20. The spring tension was enough to hold the spool but not sufficient to do so under winding tension. I was able to remove the springs and nip off a bit to increase their tension. 2) If the above is not the problem on your camera I would pick up a couple of Nitryl (Nitryl is slippier than rubber) O rings at the local hardware store. Put one on each side of the camera so that the film is tracking straight. Rich L

 

[sevo]

Hard to tell - a few of mine are loose, but I attributed that to wear or bent springs. I've also had 120 cameras that are a very tight fit, to the point of being hard to transport (Welta, pretty generally, and some Baldas). It is possible there was some slight spool variation in pre plastics core years, and makers settled for the spools of the film brand they were associated with...

 

[Dante_Stella]

The washer thing might be it. Take a look at the attached picture; the spring is resting on a natural stop, it's straight, and you can see the tiny bit of play in the shaft (above the spool). In terms of increasing the spring tension, it's unclear how this could be done; maybe a strong spring above the spool and under the top cover...

 

[RichL]

Think you're right about the spacer, not much space for messing with the spring.

It's a shame this isn't 60 years ago because one of those bus or tax tokens with a hole in the middle would be the perfect solution. 😀

 

[oftheherd]

...

It's a shame this isn't 60 years ago because one of those bus or tax tokens with a hole in the middle would be the perfect solution. 😀

Yep, I have some of those somrwhere around the house from Missouri for tax. As I recall, they came in 1, 5, and 10 mil denominations.

As to the OP, I don't think I quite understand the problem. I have several different ones, and different methods of engaging the film roll and takeup spool. Can you show a photo?

I have some old folders that have a rounded metal flange at both the takeup and beginning roll places. That may have been what that was to help alleviate.

Godd luck finding a good solution. Let us know what you get to work.

 

[graywolf]

I have seen some cameras that had a thin felt washer at the spool pins, I think they were part of the light baffling. These days those are usually long gone. It is possible that is your problem.

 

[Dante_Stella]

Hmm... made a felt washer, and the film does not fit. It appears that the big rim of the back door actually arrests the upward movement of the spool-spring when the back is closed. So it must be a pretty powerful film-oriented jam that pushes both the retaining spring and the door rim up slightly. Hmm... back to the drawing board. Maybe it is the film.

 

[nosmok]

You could try using an old metal 120 spool for take up. Just ask the lab for them back. I guess if you're really busy you'd need quite a few.

--nosmok