dfoo
Well-known
I've developed hundreds of rolls of 35mm and medium format over the past few of years, and apart from the very first roll when I didn't use enough developer, and an adventure that saw me destroy a couple of frames out of a roll of delta 3200 I've never messed up a roll of film. Today I wiped out my first. I decided to try to use a steel reel and tank that I got with a recent purchase. Before I've only used plastic reels. As long as the reels get a good scrub with a toothbrush every few months, they've worked great. The steel reel, not so much! Half of the film was stuck together, and I made another cardinal sin. I didn't put enough developer in the tank. Its a pity, because I think there was some nice shots on the roll. The first half of the film went well on the reel, but the problems started in the second half. I'm debating tossing the reel, and sticking with the plastic! For sure, if I use it again I'm going to practice with some old film.
The film was my old standby TriX exposed at EI 400. I also used rodinal for the first time. I tried 1+50 dilution, for 13 minutes at 20 degrees. I agitated continuously for the first 30 seconds, and then 5 seconds every minute. The negatives that were developed have good density, but I'm frankly very surprised at how grainy they are! Compared with D76, XTOL, and HC110 the grain is very very prominent! Is that expected, or was it a function of the agitation?
The film was my old standby TriX exposed at EI 400. I also used rodinal for the first time. I tried 1+50 dilution, for 13 minutes at 20 degrees. I agitated continuously for the first 30 seconds, and then 5 seconds every minute. The negatives that were developed have good density, but I'm frankly very surprised at how grainy they are! Compared with D76, XTOL, and HC110 the grain is very very prominent! Is that expected, or was it a function of the agitation?
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
There are techniques and "tricks" to get started using SS reels. It's not something you just pick up and do. It takes practice (unless you're loading 120 film— 
). However, once you get the hang of it, loading is pretty much a breeze. Maybe stick to what works for you and forget about SS reels (?). There's no shame in using plastic reels.
/
). However, once you get the hang of it, loading is pretty much a breeze. Maybe stick to what works for you and forget about SS reels (?). There's no shame in using plastic reels./
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Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Sucumbing to peer pressure and trying steel reels was a mistake I made recently ... convinced that all the glowing reports I had read about how superior they were would become immediately obvious when I started to use them.
Absolute crap and my experience was identical to yours! Hundreds of rolls of film processed with plastic paterson reels and not one problem ... enter the 'superior' steel reel and a perfectly good roll of 35mm Neopan was reduced to about five usable frames!
How good a product is should also be judged by it's user friendliness IMO. Steel reels and I are definitely not friends any more!
Absolute crap and my experience was identical to yours! Hundreds of rolls of film processed with plastic paterson reels and not one problem ... enter the 'superior' steel reel and a perfectly good roll of 35mm Neopan was reduced to about five usable frames!
How good a product is should also be judged by it's user friendliness IMO. Steel reels and I are definitely not friends any more!
Al Kaplan
Veteran
Rodinol doesn't so much have BIG grain as it does have very sharply defined grain. It does look grainier than most other developers though. When you load the reels you bend the film slightly from side to side, and turn the reel a quarter turn. You should feel the film slipping in place. Then gently push the film so it's lightly touching the inside edge of the next spiral befor turning the reel again. It can go really fast once you get the feel for it. Yes, practice first with the lights on!
silvalis
Pretentious
I find that some films don't load onto SS reels nicely. For example, it's a lot easier to load a roll of Tmax (tmx, tmy) onto a reel than lucky SHD100 and 400. I reckon it's because the tmax is thicker and stiffer before developing.
After a bit of practice on SS reels, I find it considerably faster to load SS reels than plastic ones. You can usually pick up deformities in the loaded film too by checking where the roll finishes on the reel (usually finishes just beyond the end of the rails for a 135-36 roll) and (though this is probably bad practice) running a finger along the roll while loading.
After a bit of practice on SS reels, I find it considerably faster to load SS reels than plastic ones. You can usually pick up deformities in the loaded film too by checking where the roll finishes on the reel (usually finishes just beyond the end of the rails for a 135-36 roll) and (though this is probably bad practice) running a finger along the roll while loading.
peterj
Newbie
Rodinal is my favorite developer. I use it from 35mm up to sheet film. It is a high definition, high acutance developer. The tradeoff for sharpness is increased grain, especially noticable in broad, smooth areas.
Unlike D-76, a solvent developer, rodinal has little solvent to dissolve grain edges.
Your agitation was normal and had no effect on increasing grain.
Unlike D-76, a solvent developer, rodinal has little solvent to dissolve grain edges.
Your agitation was normal and had no effect on increasing grain.
Melvin
Flim Forever!
I'm sorry to hear you lost some good shots, but what were you thinking? Always try a new technique on something expendable.
The other thing, there's only one brand of steel reel that actually works: Hewes. Cheap steel reels may result in lost pix. Since I started using Hewes reels I haven't lost a shot. I've had plenty of problems with plastic reels. No, I don't work for Hewes.
The other thing, there's only one brand of steel reel that actually works: Hewes. Cheap steel reels may result in lost pix. Since I started using Hewes reels I haven't lost a shot. I've had plenty of problems with plastic reels. No, I don't work for Hewes.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
One thing I did discover with steel reels is that if you hold the reel, once loaded, and rotate it sharply back and forth you can hear the film moving freely in the guides ... if it's not it means it's loaded incorrectly and is caught somewhere!
maddoc
... likes film again.
I have used once steel reels made by LPL and it was a night-mare. :bang: The reels were sold already slightly bent or twisted (made from thin diameter steel wire) so correct loading was a hit and miss. Now I am using steel reels and tanks made by Masuko (Japanese Company), where the reels are made from thick wire and using their reel-loader for both, 135 and 120, makes loading very easy.
Chris101
summicronia
You don't need to use the clip. Just stuff the film into the center of the reel and load as you would with a Nikor reel. I have also snipped the clip out. I agree they are maddening.
But there is a third kind of steel reel, the Hewes, mentioned above. They have two hooks that hold the first pair of sprocket holes. These are almost as fool proof as can be.
Dfoo, I feel for you. I grew up with ss reels, so it's second nature to me. I tried plastic reels once a few years ago. I got so frustrated, I ... well, let's just say I acted childish, and none of the frames 'came out'. (They didn't even 'get in'.)
But there is a third kind of steel reel, the Hewes, mentioned above. They have two hooks that hold the first pair of sprocket holes. These are almost as fool proof as can be.
Dfoo, I feel for you. I grew up with ss reels, so it's second nature to me. I tried plastic reels once a few years ago. I got so frustrated, I ... well, let's just say I acted childish, and none of the frames 'came out'. (They didn't even 'get in'.)
calexg
Established
I used to use plastic reels in high school and they worked fine. Recently I bought some Hewes steel reels to see how they performed, and let me tell you--I will NEVER go back to plastic reels! I find it easier and faster to load, and they feel much more high quality. I've heard from a number of different people that if you use poor quality steel reels (ie anything but Hewes) they can be a frustrating experience.
The Hewes reels exceeded my expectations and I can't recommend them enough!
The Hewes reels exceeded my expectations and I can't recommend them enough!
marke
Well-known
One word: Hewes
I just picked up a few more from a camera collectors show in Chicago today. I got two ss tanks and 3 ss reels for $7.
maddoc: What are these Masuko reels and loader you speak of? Is there a link to a website to learn more?
I just picked up a few more from a camera collectors show in Chicago today. I got two ss tanks and 3 ss reels for $7.
maddoc: What are these Masuko reels and loader you speak of? Is there a link to a website to learn more?
thomasw_
Well-known
I use Jobo reels in plastic or steel, the make of these Jobos makes all the difference to me. The steel Jobos are made for them by Hewes so they fit in my plastic Jobo tanks; they have the best anchoring system so the angling of the film does not occur. The plastic Jobo reels are smoother and easier to clean than the patterson reels I have used.
Al Kaplan
Veteran
If you think ANY of the brands are maddening you should have tried loading the narrow wire 72 exposure reels back when Ilford briefly marketed 72 exposure lengths of thin base film in standard casettes.
calexg
Established
Wow...it's a wonder why that didn't work out for them eh?
regularchickens
Well-known
I switched to steel reels recently from Paterson and Rokunar plastic reels, mostly in order to try to wipe out a source of dust on my negs that was proving persistent. I made sure to get Hewes reels (120 and 135) and while the first couple of rolls were tricky to be sure, I think I've pretty well got the hang of it, and I've never lost a frame due to bad loading.
I sure appreciate the smaller amount of chemistry that the steel tanks use, too, and they're easier to handle when agitating. I just need to pick up a dip & dunk rod sometime, as it can be hard getting those slippery 135 reels out of the wetting agent.
I sure appreciate the smaller amount of chemistry that the steel tanks use, too, and they're easier to handle when agitating. I just need to pick up a dip & dunk rod sometime, as it can be hard getting those slippery 135 reels out of the wetting agent.
mh2000
Well-known
Jobo SS reels work perfectly well too! Hook the film on the tabs and it stays straight. Get Jobo reels and you will love them... and there is that snob thing, *real* photographers use steel reels!
Honestly, there is something more satisfying using good SS reels than plastic ones.
Honestly, there is something more satisfying using good SS reels than plastic ones.
Melvin
Flim Forever!
I used to be a plastic reel man myself, not only that, but I had to have the ones with the wide "idiot proof" flange(my words). But my plastic reels got old and they began to fail. That's when I discovered Hewes reels. That's right, Ladies and Gentleman, the one and only, heavy gauge, no fuss, never rust, miracles from England. They cure cursing in the darkroom, and the film loads like a Devonshire breeze. Treat your tanks to the best.
dfoo
Well-known
The reel I was using has a clip in the center. I actually didn't use it, I started the film near the center and reeled on. The first half of the film had no problems, the second half was completely screwed. I have a suspicion that the reel is bent actually -- yeah, it can't be MY fault!
So, anyone got any Nikkor/Hewes reels they want to sell?
So, anyone got any Nikkor/Hewes reels they want to sell?
feenej
Well-known
I only have a steel reel, with clip, for my 120 processing. I ruined a bunch of frames before I finally learned to do it well. I always feel with my fingers to make sure it is right, and take it off and re-do it as many times as it takes to make sure it is right. Just the way I do it.