russelljtdyer
Writer
Yesterday I purchased a Leitz Minolta CL camera from a local photography store. It's in excellent condition (not even a minor scratch on it). It cost me €200, about $260--which seems like a very good price from what I see on KEH. However, it might have a problem with the light meter, which would account for the low price.
When getting a new camera, especially an old model, I enjoy reading through the user manual. It's a glimpse into another time. It also helps me to get to know the camera's particular features and controls so that I'm not fumbling with it when out shooting pictures the first few times.
After reading the manual for CL, I'm confused about how the light meter works for the model I have. It says to cock fully the lever for winding the film. To activate the light meter, it says to pull the lever again so that it's slightly out of its resting position. At that point, I should see the meter needle moving in the scale on the right within the viewfinder, but it doesn't move. However, when I press the battery test button on the front of the camera and hold it down, the needle comes alive and seems to work fine. As I adjust the shutter settings and hold down the battery test button, the meter need changes as I might expect. Of course, at this point I'm not sure how accurate it is. I haven't taken any photos with it yet.
The user manual says only that this button is used to test the battery, not to determine exposure. Looking elsewhere in this forum, I don't see that any one else has the same situation as me. Instead, others check exposure settings with their cameras as described in the user manual.
So, is the light meter broken or breaking? Or is this a difference in the design of a particular version of Leitz Minolta CL camera? I've read that the internal design was changed a few times for this model. The serial number on the hot-shoe is 1026433--in case that tells you when it was manufactured. On that same note, when the shutter is set to 1/60 of a second, a black notch appears in a small slot at the top of the right exposure scale. This isn't noted in the user manual. I mention it in case it indicates a particular version of the camera model.
Thanks in advance for explanations on how the light meter works on my camera, as well as opinions on its condition.
-Russell
P.S.: This is my 100th post on RangeFinderForum. Thanks to many of you for all of the help I received through these first 100 posts. I hope I gave back more help to others in return through many of those posts.
When getting a new camera, especially an old model, I enjoy reading through the user manual. It's a glimpse into another time. It also helps me to get to know the camera's particular features and controls so that I'm not fumbling with it when out shooting pictures the first few times.
After reading the manual for CL, I'm confused about how the light meter works for the model I have. It says to cock fully the lever for winding the film. To activate the light meter, it says to pull the lever again so that it's slightly out of its resting position. At that point, I should see the meter needle moving in the scale on the right within the viewfinder, but it doesn't move. However, when I press the battery test button on the front of the camera and hold it down, the needle comes alive and seems to work fine. As I adjust the shutter settings and hold down the battery test button, the meter need changes as I might expect. Of course, at this point I'm not sure how accurate it is. I haven't taken any photos with it yet.
The user manual says only that this button is used to test the battery, not to determine exposure. Looking elsewhere in this forum, I don't see that any one else has the same situation as me. Instead, others check exposure settings with their cameras as described in the user manual.
So, is the light meter broken or breaking? Or is this a difference in the design of a particular version of Leitz Minolta CL camera? I've read that the internal design was changed a few times for this model. The serial number on the hot-shoe is 1026433--in case that tells you when it was manufactured. On that same note, when the shutter is set to 1/60 of a second, a black notch appears in a small slot at the top of the right exposure scale. This isn't noted in the user manual. I mention it in case it indicates a particular version of the camera model.
Thanks in advance for explanations on how the light meter works on my camera, as well as opinions on its condition.
-Russell
P.S.: This is my 100th post on RangeFinderForum. Thanks to many of you for all of the help I received through these first 100 posts. I hope I gave back more help to others in return through many of those posts.
like2fiddle
Curious
congratulations on the 100th post.
I have a Leitz Minolta CL slightly newer than yours, 103xxxx range.
I get that black line you referred to at 1/125, not sure what it means.
I've never had a manual for mine, but I believe the meter will only work if the frame is advanced (ready to shoot) and the film advance lever is not pushed all the way back onto the top of the camera. When you advance the film to ready the camera for the next shot, the light sensor drops down in front of the curtain to do its measuring. Pushing the film advance lever all the way in turns off the meter.
I have a Leitz Minolta CL slightly newer than yours, 103xxxx range.
I get that black line you referred to at 1/125, not sure what it means.
I've never had a manual for mine, but I believe the meter will only work if the frame is advanced (ready to shoot) and the film advance lever is not pushed all the way back onto the top of the camera. When you advance the film to ready the camera for the next shot, the light sensor drops down in front of the curtain to do its measuring. Pushing the film advance lever all the way in turns off the meter.
Film dino
David Chong
Russell, you probably already know this-
(a) Advancing the film winding lever swings the meter cell out into the light path, in front of the shutter curtains. You can of course see this happening by taking the lens off.
(b) Pulling out the advance lever beyond the "parked" position switches on the metering.
(c) [With lens cap off! & assuming the meter is working properly] adjusting shutter speed &/or aperture should cause the needle to move: The central notch indicates "correct' exposure
(d) The meter check button, when depressed, should make the needle deflect downwards (whether or not lens cap is off)- indicating health of battery
Usual caveats- (1) CLs use CdS cells, which tend to die with age..
(2) The meter may need re-calibration for use with silver oxide cells
Cheers,
David
(a) Advancing the film winding lever swings the meter cell out into the light path, in front of the shutter curtains. You can of course see this happening by taking the lens off.
(b) Pulling out the advance lever beyond the "parked" position switches on the metering.
(c) [With lens cap off! & assuming the meter is working properly] adjusting shutter speed &/or aperture should cause the needle to move: The central notch indicates "correct' exposure
(d) The meter check button, when depressed, should make the needle deflect downwards (whether or not lens cap is off)- indicating health of battery
Usual caveats- (1) CLs use CdS cells, which tend to die with age..
(2) The meter may need re-calibration for use with silver oxide cells
Cheers,
David
russelljtdyer
Writer
Changed the Battery
Changed the Battery
On the assumption that the battery is strong enough to pass the test, but not strong enough to power fully the photo-cell, I replaced the battery. That seemed to have solved the problem. The pulling back of the film advance lever showed fairly correct readings. However, after a couple of days, it stopped working.
Maybe it's as you suggest, David, that the meter needs to be calibrated for new batteries or as others elsewhere have suggested, that I should get the photocell replaced. Does that sound reasonable? If so, how much should I expect it to cost me to have the photocell replaced and all?
Changed the Battery
On the assumption that the battery is strong enough to pass the test, but not strong enough to power fully the photo-cell, I replaced the battery. That seemed to have solved the problem. The pulling back of the film advance lever showed fairly correct readings. However, after a couple of days, it stopped working.
Maybe it's as you suggest, David, that the meter needs to be calibrated for new batteries or as others elsewhere have suggested, that I should get the photocell replaced. Does that sound reasonable? If so, how much should I expect it to cost me to have the photocell replaced and all?
Film dino
David Chong
CL meter diagnostics
CL meter diagnostics
Russell,
Sorry I can't help with estimates of cost or whether it's cost-effective; send the CL to someone in Europe (you're in Italy?) for a diagnostic check of the metering system? This page lists one in Genova-
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-blog/leica-repair-specialists/
Good luck,
David
CL meter diagnostics
Russell,
Sorry I can't help with estimates of cost or whether it's cost-effective; send the CL to someone in Europe (you're in Italy?) for a diagnostic check of the metering system? This page lists one in Genova-
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-blog/leica-repair-specialists/
Good luck,
David
Pablito
coco frío
It's been a long time since I sold mine, but from what I remember that notch is for battery check. You do battery check with shutter set to 1/60 only.
russelljtdyer
Writer
First Test Shots & Pulls to the Left
First Test Shots & Pulls to the Left
Below are some of my first photos taken with my newly acquired, Leica CL. The internal light meter was no help: it gives me absurd readings. Instead, I gauged off of a Sekonic L-358 light meter. I'm going to take the camera to a local repair shop that specializes in old model cameras. I'll see how much they will charge to replace the photocell and all.
One thing I noticed in using the camera is that as I tried to focus on a particular point, the image shifted away. It's like the lens was sliding to one side as I turned the focusing ring. Is that a calibration problem? Or is because of the lens I was using: Zeiss Biogon T* 35mm f/2 ZM lens?
How do y'all think these shots look? Do you see flaws as a result of the camera? I can't imagine that. In several of the shots, I composed badly--such as in the shot below in which I chopped off the top of the castle's tower a bit. It's going to take time for me to judge the limits of this lens since the camera doesn't have frame lines for a 35mm lens.
The shot above is too yellow and the one below too red. These were taken on separate days in Milan--you can see from the clouds in one and clear sky in the other--but with the same roll of film. I used Kodak Portra 160 NC--or maybe it was VC. I don't remember for sure. It may have been the film or the lab that caused the colors to be so off. I could play with them in PhotoShop to get rid of the particular color saturations. But I'd rather photos be much better before involving PhotoShop.
First Test Shots & Pulls to the Left
Below are some of my first photos taken with my newly acquired, Leica CL. The internal light meter was no help: it gives me absurd readings. Instead, I gauged off of a Sekonic L-358 light meter. I'm going to take the camera to a local repair shop that specializes in old model cameras. I'll see how much they will charge to replace the photocell and all.
One thing I noticed in using the camera is that as I tried to focus on a particular point, the image shifted away. It's like the lens was sliding to one side as I turned the focusing ring. Is that a calibration problem? Or is because of the lens I was using: Zeiss Biogon T* 35mm f/2 ZM lens?
How do y'all think these shots look? Do you see flaws as a result of the camera? I can't imagine that. In several of the shots, I composed badly--such as in the shot below in which I chopped off the top of the castle's tower a bit. It's going to take time for me to judge the limits of this lens since the camera doesn't have frame lines for a 35mm lens.
The shot above is too yellow and the one below too red. These were taken on separate days in Milan--you can see from the clouds in one and clear sky in the other--but with the same roll of film. I used Kodak Portra 160 NC--or maybe it was VC. I don't remember for sure. It may have been the film or the lab that caused the colors to be so off. I could play with them in PhotoShop to get rid of the particular color saturations. But I'd rather photos be much better before involving PhotoShop.
panerai
Well-known
Try your camera with a Wein Cell hearing aid battery as it's closer to the original mercury battery specs.
Also try some old camera shops and see if they might have a mercury battery sitting around.
I had my camera adjusted to work with modern batteries when I had a minor repair done on it.
If it's your meter that's going bad. Only choice is too replace it, use a handheld meter or go with the sunny 16 method
DON
Also try some old camera shops and see if they might have a mercury battery sitting around.
I had my camera adjusted to work with modern batteries when I had a minor repair done on it.
If it's your meter that's going bad. Only choice is too replace it, use a handheld meter or go with the sunny 16 method
DON
Film dino
David Chong
Warm cast
Warm cast
"The shot above is too yellow and the one below too red. These were taken on separate days in Milan--you can see from the clouds in one and clear sky in the other--but with the same roll of film. I used Kodak Portra 160 NC--or maybe it was VC. I don't remember for sure. It may have been the film or the lab that caused the colors to be so off. I could play with them in PhotoShop to get rid of the particular color saturations. But I'd rather photos be much better before involving PhotoShop. "
Hi Russell,
If these were scanned from automated machine prints I wouldn't expect perfect colour balance without some manual intervention
Cheers,
David
Warm cast
"The shot above is too yellow and the one below too red. These were taken on separate days in Milan--you can see from the clouds in one and clear sky in the other--but with the same roll of film. I used Kodak Portra 160 NC--or maybe it was VC. I don't remember for sure. It may have been the film or the lab that caused the colors to be so off. I could play with them in PhotoShop to get rid of the particular color saturations. But I'd rather photos be much better before involving PhotoShop. "
Hi Russell,
If these were scanned from automated machine prints I wouldn't expect perfect colour balance without some manual intervention
Cheers,
David
russelljtdyer
Writer
Good point, David. Thanks.
Thanks for the tip about Wein batteries, Don. I ordered a few this weekend. I'll see if that solves the problem. I tried to bring the camera on Friday to the man that I get to fix my old cameras, but he's on vacation for a couple of weeks. So, I have time to try a Wein battery before shelling out money on maintenance.
Thanks for the tip about Wein batteries, Don. I ordered a few this weekend. I'll see if that solves the problem. I tried to bring the camera on Friday to the man that I get to fix my old cameras, but he's on vacation for a couple of weeks. So, I have time to try a Wein battery before shelling out money on maintenance.
russelljtdyer
Writer
Update and More Questions
Update and More Questions
Those Wein batteries I ordered came in, but they did not solve my problem with the light meter. So I brought the camera to a local repair guy in Milan. He had it for a couple of weeks, and seemed to have fixed it. But after taking a couple of rolls of film, I'm thinking it's not working very well. He solved the problem I had before of the superimposed image pulling away as I focus, but the light meter seems off still. It's reacting to light and shutter speed settings and all. But does not seem to be accurate.
To test it a bit this evening, I set up my camera with only room lighting. I attached a Zeiss ZM lens, setting the lens to f/2, and pointed the camera at a wall in my home. Then I adjusted the shutter until the needle in the right margin of the viewfinder was about in the middle. With the ASA at 100, it was balanced at 1/125.
I then put the same lens on my Zeiss Ikon camera, made sure the lens was still at f/2, pointed it at the same spot on the wall while standing in the same position. With the ASA at 100, the Zeiss Ikon recommended 1/8 of a second for the shutter. That's a big difference and sounds about right.
I then tried my Sekonic L-358 light meter, with its 1° spot attachment pointing at the same spot on the wall. With an ISO of 100 and the aperture at f/2, it calculated the optimal shutter speed to be 1/5 of a second. Of course, it's much more accurate with that tight attachment. Still, it was close to that of the Zeiss Ikon camera, seeing the room as darker even.
My Zeiss Ikon's meter and my Sekonic light meter may be underwhelmed by the lighting, and I may be passing out in the midst of this test and thinking there's far less light in the room as my pupils constrict before I fall on the floor. However, I think the three of us are not mistaken: that Leica CL's internal meter seems to think I'm standing in bright sunlight by recommending 1/125 of a second shutter speed with ASA 100 film. That seems off to me. Are the light meters just not good on a Leica CL after this many years. Should I just give up on it and just use my Sekonic light meter instead?
Update and More Questions
Those Wein batteries I ordered came in, but they did not solve my problem with the light meter. So I brought the camera to a local repair guy in Milan. He had it for a couple of weeks, and seemed to have fixed it. But after taking a couple of rolls of film, I'm thinking it's not working very well. He solved the problem I had before of the superimposed image pulling away as I focus, but the light meter seems off still. It's reacting to light and shutter speed settings and all. But does not seem to be accurate.
To test it a bit this evening, I set up my camera with only room lighting. I attached a Zeiss ZM lens, setting the lens to f/2, and pointed the camera at a wall in my home. Then I adjusted the shutter until the needle in the right margin of the viewfinder was about in the middle. With the ASA at 100, it was balanced at 1/125.
I then put the same lens on my Zeiss Ikon camera, made sure the lens was still at f/2, pointed it at the same spot on the wall while standing in the same position. With the ASA at 100, the Zeiss Ikon recommended 1/8 of a second for the shutter. That's a big difference and sounds about right.
I then tried my Sekonic L-358 light meter, with its 1° spot attachment pointing at the same spot on the wall. With an ISO of 100 and the aperture at f/2, it calculated the optimal shutter speed to be 1/5 of a second. Of course, it's much more accurate with that tight attachment. Still, it was close to that of the Zeiss Ikon camera, seeing the room as darker even.
My Zeiss Ikon's meter and my Sekonic light meter may be underwhelmed by the lighting, and I may be passing out in the midst of this test and thinking there's far less light in the room as my pupils constrict before I fall on the floor. However, I think the three of us are not mistaken: that Leica CL's internal meter seems to think I'm standing in bright sunlight by recommending 1/125 of a second shutter speed with ASA 100 film. That seems off to me. Are the light meters just not good on a Leica CL after this many years. Should I just give up on it and just use my Sekonic light meter instead?
panerai
Well-known
Many meters are bad. They can be replaced, but some just use a handheld or sunny 16 and shoot that way if they don't want the expense of replacing it.
I recently sold 2 cameras. One with working and one without
Try it with the Sekonic and next roll with sunny 16 and see which works best
DON
I recently sold 2 cameras. One with working and one without
Try it with the Sekonic and next roll with sunny 16 and see which works best
DON
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
My one's manual says (on page 18);
"To test the battery hold the camera horizontally and view through the finder. Turn the shutter speed dial to make a pointer appear in the cut-out in the top right-hand corner of the finder. Press the battery test button. If the meter needle now moves into the central rectangular cut-out at the right of the finder, the battery is serviceable."
I hope this is of some help. I've had mine almost from new and think the CW metering is one of its best features.
Regards, David
My one's manual says (on page 18);
"To test the battery hold the camera horizontally and view through the finder. Turn the shutter speed dial to make a pointer appear in the cut-out in the top right-hand corner of the finder. Press the battery test button. If the meter needle now moves into the central rectangular cut-out at the right of the finder, the battery is serviceable."
I hope this is of some help. I've had mine almost from new and think the CW metering is one of its best features.
Regards, David
x-ray
Veteran
Russell,
You must have traded your camera because I just purchased it from KEH today. The SN is 1026433. I'm in Knoxville, TN USA so what's the chance of this happening. I need to go out and buy a lottery ticket tonight.
I purchased a Leitz Minolta CL from KEH on ebay and the first had a bad meter. I returned it and this is the replacement. I just ran a test roll and everything seems to be working perfectly. The meter works perfectly and is steady. Readings are on the money with my MP and hand held meter.
It's still in mint condition but I paid $350 not $260.
Let me know when and where you sold it.
Thanks
Don