That old thing about Leicas being stealthy...
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Roger Hicks
Veteran
Go to the Rencontres at Arles. You'll have your work cut out. I've never seen so many Leicas in use (or at least, being carried) in one place.
Cheers,
R.
rbsinto
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I always believed that except for the most extreme cases, it was the photographer's technique and not the gear that determined his/her degree of stealth.
Sparrow
Veteran
Paul Jenkin
Well-known
Well, Joel Meyerowitz reckons he becomes invisible when using his Leica on the streets of New York, so they must be good 'cos he's at least 6 foot 6 inches tall.......!!
FrankS
Registered User
Another vote for the photographer's attitude and shooting style as being the most important factor. As for gear, while you can shoot almost any subject with almost any camera, and the photographer's skill is most important here, some gear is better than other gear for different purposes. (I've heard this called: Horses for Courses.) There isn't anything special about Leica in particular; it is one of the smaller less intimidating to strangers types of cameras that are best for this purpose. IMO, Leica is one of the better RF style cameras - smoother and quieter than most, and built to a high standard (hence the price).
As for my "cynical" comment, I don't see the rationality of bashing/picking on photographers using any particular brand of equipment and dismiss them all as fondlers and "not real" photographers. While I am sure there are some people who buy items with the intent of displaying their wealth and status instead of for the original purpose of the item, they may just as well be buying monster dSLR's with huge zooms, or luxury cars, or sports cars which can never be driven to their capabilities on public roads. These expressions of opulence would be much more effective for such a display, being more obvious and meaningful to a larger segment of the population, as opposed to a Leica. So please, let's stop making unsupportable sweeping disparaging generalizations.
As for my "cynical" comment, I don't see the rationality of bashing/picking on photographers using any particular brand of equipment and dismiss them all as fondlers and "not real" photographers. While I am sure there are some people who buy items with the intent of displaying their wealth and status instead of for the original purpose of the item, they may just as well be buying monster dSLR's with huge zooms, or luxury cars, or sports cars which can never be driven to their capabilities on public roads. These expressions of opulence would be much more effective for such a display, being more obvious and meaningful to a larger segment of the population, as opposed to a Leica. So please, let's stop making unsupportable sweeping disparaging generalizations.
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micromontenegro
Well-known
Frank, my opinion is based solely in what I have seen around me. It is my opinion, and I am entitled to it- as you are entitled to call it cynical- and now, lacking rationale. As there are some things you "don't see", I also fail to see how calling someone cynical, or questioning his rationality differs from brand-bashing. Nevertheless, I am OK with it- not all of us think alike, thankfully.
But I must voice my concern at your lumping the act of bashing- picking on-dismissing anyone with my "cynical" comment. I have not, I repeat, not bashed, picked on, or dismissed anybody. Wanting attention is a normal human need, and there is absolutely nothing wrong, IMHO, in wanting to be noticed. In fact, I find a little worrying that we are so serious about photography (or any other activity) that we must deny our human side.
I happen to have seen a lot of people wearing Leicas as jewelry. And so I say it. With that, I am in no way dimishing them- au contraire, more power to them. It is one of the better kinds of jewelry extant.
In all probability, those who use cameras (any kind of camera) as necklaces are not present in great numbers here at RFF- but RFF is a tiny little bit of the world. Anyone can say that their experience is different from mine, but we hardly can question the accuracy of somebody's perception- I see many cameras carried as necklaces, you don't- who is right? More to the point, who is to say who is right? I am no yet conceited enough to speak about absolutes, but I voice my opinions.
FrankS
Registered User
I was reacting to generalizations about Leica users in particular. If that wasn't your intent, then okay.
Sparrow
Veteran
Cynical is a side of Frank I have not seen in his past comments, is it possible you are misunderstanding this one?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
But 99%? A bit over the top. Half, maybe, but even then, I'd dispute it.
In fact, maybe it suggests that Leicas are actually quite unobtrusive. Consider the following premises and conclusions:
PREMISES
You personally see people carrying Leicas.
and
You personally don't see people taking pictures with their Leicas.
CONCLUSIONS
They don't take pics with their Leicas
or
They are sufficiently unobtrusive that when they do, you don't see it
I carried a Leica at Arles all last week, and came back with 200+ pictures. Does this make me a jewellery-carrier, or someone who uses a Leica both to take 'pretty pictures' (probably a more honourable term than 'fine art') and as a notebook?
Cheers,
R.
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Toccata
Member
Of course a rf will stand out in a sea of cell phones, but so will a canon s95. Times have changed since slrs came to prominance in the late 50's/ early sixties.
Most of the elements that made the leica alluring over the decades are now done better by cheap mass market gizmos. In comparison to a point and shoot or iphone, leicas are obtrusive and loud.
That's just fine in my book. My leica takes kick ass photos and it gives me immense pleasure every time I use it. I can't say the same for my s90, iphone, ricoh gxr or my contax slr.
cosmonaut
Well-known
In my neck of the woods very few people even know what a Leica is. When I am spotted on the street most people think my M6 is worthless since it is a film camera.
Other way around with my Olympus E5. But I agree my M6 isn't slealthy by todays standards with the m4/3rd, X100 and the Nex cameras.
Other way around with my Olympus E5. But I agree my M6 isn't slealthy by todays standards with the m4/3rd, X100 and the Nex cameras.
Vics
Veteran
I used to feel conspicuous with my M3, but two forces have combined to make me invisible. First, I've gotten to be old. Most people can't see old people. I had a young woman walk right into me, and she was looking right at me! I just wasn't on her radar. It's also true that when one gets older he's just not as "self" conmscious as when younger.
Second, I swapped my 'cron DR for a Summaron 35mm 2.8 with eyes, and now I can walk right up to people and shoot a picture, and they just don't see me or my camera.
Truth is indeed stranger than fiction! I think my Leica is pretty stealthy.
Second, I swapped my 'cron DR for a Summaron 35mm 2.8 with eyes, and now I can walk right up to people and shoot a picture, and they just don't see me or my camera.
Truth is indeed stranger than fiction! I think my Leica is pretty stealthy.
Sparrow
Veteran
... they never see me either
micromontenegro
Well-known
Roger: I should have used an emoticon to denote that my 99% estimate was 99% (more like 50%) tongue-in cheek ;-)
Also, note that I am not implying that wanting to be noticed is incompatible with being a prolific, excellent photographer. Alas, some of the best-known artists have been some of the greatest carvers for attention, too.
Also, note that I am not implying that wanting to be noticed is incompatible with being a prolific, excellent photographer. Alas, some of the best-known artists have been some of the greatest carvers for attention, too.
alistair.o
Well-known
... they never see me either
Is that your assistant in the background? The one saying "right a bit" - "bit more"...
claacct
Well-known
There is almost a pathological dislike of Leica owners by a large chunk of photographers who use other equipment and there is a pathological drive in Leica owners to associate their self-esteem with their Leica gear. When you add these two together in internet forums the result is endless threads like this where some people feel attacking their gear choice is as bad as someone attacking their religion or ethnicity.
All of this waste of mental energy could be fixed if people posted more photos, talked more about photos and become photoholic rather than zuikoholic or Leicaholic or gearholic... People need to post more photos and less words... And every time they posted more words it should ring warning bells to them that creativly they have run dry so hence the chit chat.
All of this waste of mental energy could be fixed if people posted more photos, talked more about photos and become photoholic rather than zuikoholic or Leicaholic or gearholic... People need to post more photos and less words... And every time they posted more words it should ring warning bells to them that creativly they have run dry so hence the chit chat.
Sparrow
Veteran
Ah, I didn't actually see her at the time, sadly, a foot to the right would have been a better camera position I admit
Photog9000
Well-known
Well, looks like everyone feels one way or the other. Tossing in my $0.02 worth with this story. At this year's jazz fest I had decided to not use my 80-200 f2.8 zoom opting instead for the new 35mm f1.8 AF-S G DX and an 85mm f1.8 AF-D pair. It was like I was a musician magnet! With everyone else, including fans, sporting the latest Canikon w/telephoto pro zooms I stuck out like a sore thumb!😱 I also shot with my latest acquisition, a Contax G2 w/45mm f2.0 and my dad's 1970's version of a Yashica Electro35 GS. My equipment was not what the other "pros" were using and my stealth was non-existent! In the end, I got some images I am very happy with and did not break my back dragging around the heavy zooms opting instead to use my feet. I did have one advantage in that I had an "all access" pass that allowed me anywhere for the 4-day event.😀
paulfish4570
Veteran
"All of this waste of mental energy could be fixed if people posted more photos ..."
let's see some.
let's see some.
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