boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
I was thinking LTM because it can be adapted to M mount. I shall see what there is with M mount. They seem a nice lens. And it would close the circle I have from the mid to late 50's. Thanks for the help.
I spent a month or so near Woerden. I was impressed with the Netherlands. I could not find anywhere in the country one thing I looked for: a pothole. ;o) Everything is quite orderly without being oppressive. The food is good and the farmer Gouda, well, I do think you guys keep the best for domestic consumption. My friend and I had five Goudas after dinner all from within 20 KM of the restaurant. You do keep the best. And I did go to A'dam just to see the Rembrandts. What can I say? And all the Hollanders I asked agreed with, "We built this country and if we have to we can build another." All in all, the time was wonderful and well spent.
I spent a month or so near Woerden. I was impressed with the Netherlands. I could not find anywhere in the country one thing I looked for: a pothole. ;o) Everything is quite orderly without being oppressive. The food is good and the farmer Gouda, well, I do think you guys keep the best for domestic consumption. My friend and I had five Goudas after dinner all from within 20 KM of the restaurant. You do keep the best. And I did go to A'dam just to see the Rembrandts. What can I say? And all the Hollanders I asked agreed with, "We built this country and if we have to we can build another." All in all, the time was wonderful and well spent.
Erik van Straten
Veteran
A month in Woerden? Not much to do there IMO. (I'm only joking.)
Thank you!
My lens was adapted, the original mount did not fit anything else than the Foton, I guess. The adaptation to Leica M must have been very laborious, the curve for the rangefinder was done by hand, but works great. It's as if the lower portion of the mount comes from a 50mm Summicron collapsible LTM.
Erik.
This is not far from Woerden:
gelatin silver print (hektor 50mm f2.5) leica II
dexdog
Veteran
This lens is M39
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
Like others have said, it is mounted for LTM cameras..others were mounted for Contax RF mount (very few) and even for M42 for SLR use.
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
A month in Woerden? Not much to do there IMO. (I'm only joking.)
Thank you!
My lens was adapted, the original mount did not fit anything else than the Foton, I guess. The adaptation to Leica M must have been very laborious, the curve for the rangefinder was done by hand, but works great. It's as if the lower portion of the mount comes from a 50mm Summicron collapsible LTM.
Erik.
This is not far from Woerden:
gelatin silver print (hektor 50mm f2.5) leica II
Here's a pic near Woerden. There is a killer chocolate store in Woerden. You want to know how to piss off a Hollander? Ask if he speaks English. You guys are a remarkable lot, and bragging just is not done. I was seated in front of "The Night Watch" and asked the fellow next to me if he wasn't awfully proud to be in the presence of so famed and wonderful Dutch painter. "Well, sort of." The fellow who put me up for more than a month initially offered to guide me to a good B&B. But we hit it off so well he offered me to stay. He is a polymath and a very good photographer, Dutch university trained, videographer and recording engineer and a truly good sort. How many people would take in a stranger for more than a month? An extremely gracious man.
But the photo ---
Sony A7M II, Sony 24 - 240, 36mm, f/4.0, 1/30. ISO 100
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
That's a Picture-perfect picture, Boojum!
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
Thank you. It is further proof that even a blind hog will find a root once in a while. The Netherlands is a beautiful place that the Dutch have made from swamps and bays. They are a wonderful crowd and genial hosts. And I have never seen a place where more couples do things together. Food shopping, other shopping, walks, bike rides, dinners, brews, whatever. I cannot recommend highly enough a visit. And they do get miffed if you ask if they speak English. They are taught early on in school and most speak English better than I do. Go. Visit.
Erik van Straten
Veteran
Thanks Boojum, lovely shot. There are nice spots in The Netherlands, thats true!
Erik.
Erik.
David Hughes
David Hughes
I was looking for something last night and found a leaflet from the mid 1950's in the BJP 1954 Almanac. "Taylor-Hobson" at the top was marked "Trade Mark" and at the bottom was the address of "Taylor, Taylor and Hobson" in London. One of their lenses was the "Cooke Portrait" and their factory was mentioned as being in Leicester.
No mention of lenses for roll film or 35mm cameras, by the way.
Regards, David
Ambro51
Collector/Photographer
The lens is a six element. They are calibrated in T stops, rather than f stops. BTW, the Foton is superior to the Leica.
Erik van Straten
Veteran
Taylor, Taylor and Hobson is a very old business. They are the makers of famous optics for cinematography like the Speed Panchro in the 1920's and later and they collaborated with Leitz of Germany since the early thirties. They made optical elements for lenses as the Xenon and the first version of the Summilux.
Erik.
Erik.
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
I am starting to regret this thread. It started as a naive query. Now I feel like I am in with a bunch of whoopee pre-game tailgaters encouraging me to get on board the THC train. LOL If the market comes back I will probably get an Amotal. Jeffo's cine lens photos are amazing. I may be deluding myself but the cinema lenses seem to do light and color better, Or I am programmed to appreciate cinema light and color more? Regardless, the result is the same, I like 'em. I am not quite sure I have earned an Amotal but perhaps if I filch one quickly enough no one will notice. Other folks' photos with this lens are good, B&W for how it handles light.
Now that I have expressed way too much interest which has been engendered by you hoodlums, what should I be looking for in an Amotal? Or is there a workable cine lens in the same price range to consider? This is kind of funny as the color here for about six months of the year is gray, with occasional splashes of color. This ain't no tropical clime.
Now that I have expressed way too much interest which has been engendered by you hoodlums, what should I be looking for in an Amotal? Or is there a workable cine lens in the same price range to consider? This is kind of funny as the color here for about six months of the year is gray, with occasional splashes of color. This ain't no tropical clime.
Ambro51
Collector/Photographer
A few years ago I lent Mike Eckman my Foton for a Full review. Take a look at his review, and you’ll see a full gallery of images from the TTH lens. BTW, he gave the Foton the highest “rating” he’s given ( 16.3 ). https://www.mikeeckman.com/2019/07/b...ll-foton-1948/take a look at all the images he took, the BW shot of the steeple is Great, here’s a color teaser...
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
I'm beginning to dislike you guys more and more. LOL Thanks for the help, I guess. ;o) Maybe if I sell the kids, . . .
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
OK, a query for the RFF Braintrust on distinguishing the various Amotal 2" lenses. On eBay there are LTM's with the attaching ring knurled but not in a continuous knurl: https://www.ebay.com/itm/265515689613?hash=item3dd1f7e68d:g:Oo8AAOSwq4Nh7iVx
Then there are Amotal 2" lenses with a continuously knurled attaching ring: https://www.ebay.com/itm/334085020853?hash=item4dc904dcb5:g:3KkAAOSw11Ng-H6h
And then there is the Amotal with the M-mount: https://www.ebay.com/itm/373596732016?hash=item56fc19ba70:g:q9cAAOSw4eFgsk2J
So there are three different identifiable lenses, maybe more. What is the meaning of the three styles? And do the different styles mean the lenses are different inside as they are outside?
Then there are Amotal 2" lenses with a continuously knurled attaching ring: https://www.ebay.com/itm/334085020853?hash=item4dc904dcb5:g:3KkAAOSw11Ng-H6h
And then there is the Amotal with the M-mount: https://www.ebay.com/itm/373596732016?hash=item56fc19ba70:g:q9cAAOSw4eFgsk2J
So there are three different identifiable lenses, maybe more. What is the meaning of the three styles? And do the different styles mean the lenses are different inside as they are outside?
Erik van Straten
Veteran
The original Cooke Amotal Anastigmat 2 inch f/2 was made with a mount for the Foton (1949), an American camera (Bell and Howell). The Foton was not a big succes. It is a very heavy camera. Later some of the Cooke Amotal lenses for the Foton were adapted for other cameras and quite recent some of them were adapted for Leica M. Optically they are all the same. They are "ELC" coated (Electro Layering Ceramic), also called "Blue Circle"-coating. Some of the Amotal and Speed Panchro lenses have a small blue circle engraved in their name ring.
Some lenses were marked by T-stops (transmission stops) instead of f-stops to indicate the light losses.T-stops were "true" or effective aperture stops and were common for motion picture lenses,so that a cinematographer could ensure that consistent exposures were made by all the different lenses used to make a movie. This was less important for still cameras and only one still lens line was ever marked in T-stops: for the Bell & Howell Foton 35mm rangefinder camera. Bell & Howell was normally a cinematographic equipment maker, the Amotal.
The Foton's standard lens was the Taylor, Taylor & Hobson Cooke Amotal Anastigmat 2 inch f/2 (T/2.2) (1948; camera USA; lens UK, a Double Gauss).The quarter stop difference between f/2 and T/2.2 is a 16% loss.
I guess the Amotal is not very different from the very famous early Speed Panchro lenses (with the same focal length) from the same maker.
Erik.
Ambro51
Collector/Photographer
Buy a Foton. It’s better than a Leica. Yup
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
They are all adapted or "hacked" lenses close to something Sonnar Brian Sweeney would do but on a larger scale..only the front 1/3 of the lens is the original Foton Amotal lens that has been screwed on to a specially machined and engraved body with a calibrated tube cam for RF use and proper focus. Most of the LTM ones look like the ones adapted by an Italian machine shop for American camera stores like Peerless..there is more than one style and some have different knurling , some engraved with Made in Italy and some not. The M mount version on * Epray looks to be a one off and different than the usual all aluminum Italian adapted ones. These Cooke Amotal lenses were also adapted for RF Contax and for M42 for Praktica or Edixa SLRS, also done in the 1950s .
rfaspen
[insert pithy phrase here]
I highly recommend getting the version with the Italian made mount. Historical and very likely proper calibration. Plus, LTM gives you more flexibility.
The first one is mounted in an Industsr 26/61. I have one of those.....by far the cheapest lens I own, and I'm not talking about purchase price. That one looks a bit beat up and then attached to a cheap mount..... maybe if the price was much lower I'd consider it. The last is mounted in an LTM summicron mount. Probably fine, but not historical or flexible as the Italian mount. Plus, it's from kevincameras, which isn't a bad thing, but he/they are typically much higher priced than market. However, I have never bought from them, maybe worth the much (sometimes way much) higher cost?
Anyway, I like the Italian mount. I'm thinking I would like one too
The first one is mounted in an Industsr 26/61. I have one of those.....by far the cheapest lens I own, and I'm not talking about purchase price. That one looks a bit beat up and then attached to a cheap mount..... maybe if the price was much lower I'd consider it. The last is mounted in an LTM summicron mount. Probably fine, but not historical or flexible as the Italian mount. Plus, it's from kevincameras, which isn't a bad thing, but he/they are typically much higher priced than market. However, I have never bought from them, maybe worth the much (sometimes way much) higher cost?
Anyway, I like the Italian mount. I'm thinking I would like one too