The Bessa R4a and a fresh start

[davelrods]

Been at all this since a kid back in the early 50's. I've pushed it back into my conscience several times but it keeps coming back. Digital damn near killed it, but here I am old and sick and in need of a way to finish a life with film. I just felt I couldn't give this life up without a heavy dose of film to bring me to a comfortable end.

So I bought a used Bessa and a nice Skopar 35mm 2.5 lens from board member here, Paul, and am into the seventh roll of film now. I've found a couple girls at Costco who will set the machine to give me a good set of scans, so I am able to do film with some cheating along the way. Honestly Costco can give you some just fine scans, nearly as good as my Coolscan V ed scanner if but a little lower resolution. So I'm fixed and into it good and strong.

Never satisfied without buying more and more, I've discovered Russian rangefinder too. I have several Fed's and Zorki's coming along with their given lenses and I just his evening purchased a Jupiter 3, only to find out that it is problematic on the Bessa, but I'll be using it on the Fed's and Zorki's mostly anyway. That should give me the somewhat wider and normal end of it all, which is what I shoot all the time anyway. If I want to go to the wide and tele extremes, I have my myriad of digitals to carry me through.

So, I'm well into it and quite astounded at just how good Fuji just plain Walmart 200 negative film is. I've just gotten a box of it from B&H and 20 rolls of 160 pro too, to see how good it can get. I'm thinking the 200 will be good enough. If there are some film choice suggestions you could give, I'd appreciate it.

On the Russian cameras, I'm finding out they are pretty capable, with pretty decent lenses. I'm doubtful they will be the equal of the Bessa, but my thinking is they will be good enough to give me some challenges and some pleasures. If there are some suggestions concerning the Russian cameras, I'll really appreciate it too. The damn things are cheap, so I have a bunch of them coming. Hell for the price of the Bessa and its one lens, I will have a whole shelf full of Russian stuff to play with. Oh, yes, I have the screw to M adapter on the way too. Is there a standout, body or lens I should have or should purchase.

Finally, I'm about as far from a snob as anyone could possibly strive to be, but I'm wondering just what the attitude is to using film but scanning and going totally digital from then on. Honestly if I were interested in black and white, I would do the whole range of chemical stuff, given I still have all my darkroom equipment, but I want to go with color and if I want black and white it will come from color negatives. In that vain, is black and white from color scans viable or is that cheating to the point of being a total scam. Like I said, no snob here, but I like to know the parameters, so if I'm charged with being a film fake, I'll know why the charges have been leveled.

Thanks for listening.

dave

 

[mfogiel]

I think honestly, that if you want to shoot colour, it will take you a lot of self persuasion not to abandon the BESSA for a digital camera. B&W conversions from film suck, and they even suck more from digital, so in my opinion film is a 90% B&W domain nowadays. Shooting B&W film, developing and scanning can have some advantages (easier post processing, better enlargeability) over the entirely wet process (including lesser consumption of space, time and water), but when properly done, the wet prints still have the edge in tonality and surface appearance. The only way in which colour shooting can still be appealing with a Bessa, in my opinion, is if you make slides and project them, this way you cut all the processing labour, and get a superior rsult that digital still struggles to match (through digi projectors).

 

[Brennotdan]

I have never liked black and white conversions from color film (or digital), and though I haven't tried it, I've seen really very nice results from scanned c41 black and white. You can also shoot silver black and white and send it out for processing at a little more cost, and get scans too. Costco might be able to send it out for you.

 

[MaxElmar]

I shoot film and scan. Lot's of reasons. Here's one.

I regularly convert C41 or E6 film scans to B&W. It's very handy and interesting to be able to apply filtration after the exposure. Got the idea from converting digital images to monochrome (not that I'm the first to think of it). Here's one that I like.

Sometimes (maybe a lot of the time) color detracts from an image. Converting to B&W and using the color information to help contrast can be a good creative choice. And it's still a film aesthetic. It's not like traditional B&W materials, but it looks like film because it is film.

 

[davelrods]

I'm not sure about all that.

I'm not sure about all that.

I grew up with film, nearly lived it as the school photographer when I was in high school. Continued with it as a rewarding outgrowth of much that I've done for the last 50 - 60 years. I came along with digital when digital came along. I've had probably more than 30 digital cameras, currently have more than a dozen DSLR's. I am a total camera freak. This foray with the Bessa is a return to basics, but I just don't want to engage it to any kind of obsessive level. I'm satisfied playing with it and enjoying the convenience of scanning, even Costco scanning. When folks here talk of color and film no longer being a compatible combination and that B&W is pretty much totally the realm of film, I'm thinking they are engaging it as a rigid undertaking. I'm just enjoying it as a different look and a different approach and a different enjoyable journey. So, I guess I can't agree with your contentions. I just don't think they apply to me.

Probably you will demand that this would be best in B&W, while I would suggest color brings tone and texture to it that B&W doesn't capture and maybe my Bessa brings a different perspective than my 5D or E1 or L1 or K200D would. I just don't know, didn't have them with me and wouldn't have wanted to have engaged the comparison anyway, probably. I just think the negative and my Coolscan scanner gave me a nice approach that I enjoyed working through. No striving for perfection here, just dabbling with film again after all these years, thinking that I might find something I've been missing if I look hard enough.

 

[DRabbit]

Dave,

Ya know, having only recently embarked on this film journey myself I am about as far from a film snob as you'll probably find. My attitude about photography has always been you have to do what you enjoy. Film, digital, converting color to B&W or going pure silver-based B&W, you get to decide, and who are we to judge it? Ultimately, if it all starts to feel too much like work and not much like fun, than what's the point really?

And I really like your rail photo.

🙂

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

I shoot mostly black and white film, which I scan and do everything else from there. I think the results are terrific. I occasionally shoot color film, since there are a few films I really love that I can't quite replicate in digital, but mostly I use digital for color.

Scanning B&W film is completely reasonable, though. Enjoy!

 

[davelrods]

I'm not sure about scaning B&W

I'm not sure about scaning B&W

I got out a couple strips from way back when and first thing found I couldn't use Digital ICE with B&W, which especially with old stuff, is like having your blood thinned to such a level you can't think any more. ICE with scanning is paramount. I guess the stuff you process with color negative processing isn't like that, though, but is it real B&W. My thought is that if I can't use ICE I just don't want to engage scanning at all. Cleaning up those old B&W negatives was at least a full hour of work each to get reasonably perfect end results. I know with new stuff it would be better, but honestly new untouched color negatives from the processor always have dust and scratches, I doubt I could expect anything much better if I were to do the processing myself. What have you experienced in that regard.

 

[Gaspar]

I develop my own colour with Tetenal, It's dead easy and the negatives have never scratched. I wipe the dust off before scanning.
You should try it. make sure you use gloves though

 

[davelrods]

Costco processing and scanning is just too easy

Costco processing and scanning is just too easy

and cheap. I don't know how it would compare with doing it myself, but I know it is easier and the price is $2.99. The scans aren't as high resolution as what I get from my Coolscan scanner, but the quality of the best ones can't be beat. It is just superb. That picture above is my scan but the Costco scan is every bit as clear and crisp. I just liked the warmth of mine, while the Costco scan was cooler. Here is their's:

 

[jmg1911]

Dave - Wonderful use of color. Yes It might be great in b&w too,but why argue with sucess?

 

[MaxElmar]

Dave - Beautiful and subtle use of color. As the songwriter said - Don't go changin'.

 

[JohnTF]

Dave, interesting you have the Coolscan, and have some experience with Costco. It is a road I have been interested in, as I have had some problems getting good scans from my local shop. I have heard a lot about the relatively good ratio of cost to quality in Costco prints.

You say the Costco scans are not quite up to your Coolscan, -- can you tell me more quantitatively, just what kind of scans they are putting out for you?

I was shooting more XP2 to allow easier scanning, but the person at my customary shop doing the scanning did not know she could use digital ICE with C41 B&W, so she shut it off, resulting in a lot of scans I either have to re do, or a lot of Photoshop to fix all the artifacts.

I have not gotten over to Costco, but you seem pleased, as do many others, but it is of interest to me as to the type and size of files they are giving you.


Hope this shows we are all on the same track. ;-) I was beginning to wonder if we were neighbors?

 

[davelrods]

Not sure what to tell you about my experience with Costco. I have talked with the girls and they suggested they scan at the highest values as default. She talked about 16 base whatever that is. The scans end up being about 4 mg each, run in size about equal to tiff files from my Coolscan scanner that are about 18 mg. They are pretty good, though I think I like the ones from my Nikon better. You can look at the two examples above and can see the highlight handling with Costco stuff is often blown. I find their saturation and contrast often quite pushed too, especially with high contrast light situations. I think they are a good starting point, surely better than throw away prints that have no value at all. I would say maybe 10% of the Costco scans are about as good as it gets, which makes the whole thing quite worthwhile.

 

[Tuolumne]

OTOH, I like this. I guess you could say the original is a color B&W. This is a warmified, green-filtered B&W.

/T

 

[JohnTF]

Dave, probably 16 bit? I seem to recall if they are 16 bit tiff's, you need to reduce them to 8 bit to convert to jpeg.

Am sure I know less than about anyone here on that, my learning curve on this stuff has been "low contrast", i.e. not very steep.

Thanks for the info.

John

 

[Trius]

I agree that the central thing is to do what you like, what fulfills you. As far as sacanning b&w goes, it's not that difficult to develop a workflow that makes scanning without ICE quite manageable. My scan software doesn't even have ICE capability and I do all my own b&w scanning. I've not had too many successful conversions from colour as I am not accomplished with post-processing, but I have friends who are better than I at doing it.

At some point, personnel at Cost I will change, and you will get some subpar results. As for the samples posted, both are nice but I see a clear difference between the two scans, even on my iPod Touch.

All the best,

Earl

 

[davelrods]

Interesting you say you see a "clear difference" in my two scans. I see a difference too. I'm wondering how you would characterize that difference. What are the negatives and positives. What do you like and dislike about them.

 

[JohnTF]

I agree that the central thing is to do what you like, what fulfills you. As far as sacanning b&w goes, it's not that difficult to develop a workflow that makes scanning without ICE quite manageable. My scan software doesn't even have ICE capability and I do all my own b&w scanning. I've not had too many successful conversions from colour as I am not accomplished with post-processing, but I have friends who are better than I at doing it.

At some point, personnel at Cost I will change, and you will get some subpar results. As for the samples posted, both are nice but I see a clear difference between the two scans, even on my iPod Touch.

All the best,

Earl

Interesting comments on the scanning, I was hoping to hear more about B&W from color one of these days, another area I know little about, other than a quick click to gray scale.

I have had positive comments from Costco's work in several states, my tech savvy friend in Atlanta tells me they just installed some rather good new equipment.

Hope they keep on it.

What are you scanning with?

Regards, John