The Digital (analog(digital(analog)digital)analog) B&w Print

[David_Manning]

From "What is a Lambda Printer?":

The combination of size flexibility and image quality has made the Lambda a staple of the best photographic labs across the world. How does it work? In a similar vein to the Lightjet, digital information is exposed directly onto conventional photographic media. Linear writing speed is superfast: up to 65 cm per minute with a choice of 200 and 400 ppi (equal to an apparent resolution of 4000 dpi)resolutions. The Lambda produces images with the highest possible resolution (68 billion colours!)

 

[David_Manning]

Here is the info directly from Printroom.com, who I have used for B&W. The prices are reasonable, and the quality is the same as the Apple prints I've had made:


>>True black & white printing. Just like in the ol' days.
You've probably spent countless hours in the darkroom developing black & white prints in the film days. We may be light years ahead with digital photography, but when it comes to printing, the tried-and-true is still the best. We've updated the process a bit, but we won't skimp on quality. Your photos are printed with silver halide technology for true black & white quality.
Black & white highlights:
Dedicated Durst Theta silver halide printer
Printed on professional grade Ilford black & white paper
True black & white chemistry
Color files are hand-converted to black & white and adjusted for density and contrast
Black & white prints will never go out of style. Try a sample for yourself and see the quality of a true black & white print.<<

 

[Photo_Smith]

I don't doubt they are doing this, what I'm saying is how here is the product info.
http://www.imagetechdigital.com/oldhtml/durst/downloads/Theta_76_76HS.pdf

Digital C type printer suitable for RA4 paper using RGB LED's which is great, just how do they image the 'R' part of the array (650nm) on paper that tops out at 400nm (blue)

I don't doubt they do it, I'd just like to know how.

 

[Frank Petronio]

I'm here looking at a Bob Carnie, Elevator Digital of Toronto, Durst Lambda print of my digital file made on real fiber-based and toned silver photo paper. It looks great.

About $200 for 11x14 so it's not affordable for everything but it is my first choice. If you do several it is not unreasonable and the shipping from CA isn't bad. Bob is great to work with and a reliable partner.

Otherwise I use Harrington RIP on an Epson with quality Baryta paper and it is also very nice and when framed is indistinguishable from silver to the naked eye, even at close distances. These work well for portfolio books too.

In years past I used the Kodak LVT to output digital files to film to be printed optically or scanned by conventional litho printers (in the 90s before direct to plate became common). It worked well. I suppose you'd have to test and experiment to get the grain structure you like at the print size you do, and each situation would be different. In general I was trying to avoid grain, not enhance it.

Those filter pack plug-ins like VESCO, etc. probably have a lot of things worked out but I find needing a canned filter distasteful and refuse to buy them.

The general concept of perfecting all your burning and dodging, correcting emulsion defects, etc. so that you can run with a set of straight prints is a good one. When I first started working with digital imaging, I could spend the first few years simply redoing film images that were hopelessly difficult to impossible to print in the darkroom due to defects, scratches, human error, etc.

 

[Sparrow]

... you could try this place for C-prints, efficient, quick and very accurate ProAm

 

[Michael Markey]

I have first come across the concept of a silver halide baryta fiber print from a digital file, in a David Bailey interview, which I cannot find anymore on the web. Bailey was being asked for silver prints by the collectors and museums, but he did not want to fiddle with the darkroom process anymore.
So, he came up with the help of Ilford, I believe, with the solution of digitizing his film images, doing all the burning dodging and spotting in PS, and then using these "master" files for printing on silver halide paper with the help of laser technology ( I think).

Thanks Marek ...I didn`t know this was how the process originated.
I use it myself whenever I want anything printed.

 

[Photo_Smith]

About $200 for 11x14 so it's not affordable for everything but it is my first choice.

Ouch...
When I owned the lambda I charged £11.99 for 11x14 and £19.99 for 16x20 I wonder what makes it so expensive to make it exclusive to most people?

I mean it's not like the paper is expensive compared to ink jet, if the Lambda is able to write RGB to graded paper it should be similar in price to hand enlargements on the same media.

 

[willie_901]

Great thread... I'm learning a lot.

Thanks to all.

 

[EliasK]

I just received a few test silver prints from Ilford lab direct (uk), MF scans from V700.
Tonality was spot on to my pp and shadow detail I think is superior to digital prints.

Very satisfied, from now on I will print my enlargements there.

 

[Santtu Määttänen]

For me, I would skip the analog part and film from the start. But the concept of making high quality prints from digital files that last a lifetime for certain (since there's been them for that long and they are doing fine) has quite a temptation. Actually I'm in process of turning back to darkroom in a sort. But not silver prints, since for me palladium process is more straight forward (from digital stand point). Besides the possibility of working with materials in near normal light is a plus. Besides I don't find the costs overwhelming as long as they are made "as needed" basis.

Pretty good demonstration of this process here: http://vimeo.com/66352973

Problem to solve is what printer to use to get digital negatives, there've been loads of discussions online about it. But haven't made my mind yet. Important parts are how much it costs, how much it costs to run and the size. I'd like it to be A3 for larger print size (or even A2, but are there even high quality transparencies in that size?).

 

[asiddens]

Analog from Digital / Whitewall

Analog from Digital / Whitewall

Anyone really get to the bottom of this? What is being offered and is there any point.

This little topic has been driving me crazy!.... Trying to find information behind the smoke and mirrors about the services offered by printers.

My quest started with this from Leica's Monochrom web info...

'In collaboration with WhiteWall, the premium photo finishers, the Leica M Monochrom print service offers customers an opportunity to have exclusive black-and-white prints made from their images. '

But the info on this was sketchy.

I have recently been getting prints from Picto but I don't think they have this analog from digital service. Yes they print (excellently) on Ilford photo paper but I don't think there is any wet process involved.

SO what actually was this service Leica/Whitewall offer?

I think this is it...

https://uk.whitewall.com/photo-lab/photo-print/baryt-paper#tjn=f&t=produkt-details


Particularly the option....

'The Technology: LightJet by Océ, combined with a silver halide development'

Anyone had any experience of it?

 

[Bruno Gracia]

I'm interested in this... any lights?

 

[mfogiel]

As far as I remember, if you go on the Picto website, you can send them files and pretend baryta silver prints - you just need to download the profiles for soft proofing.
Anyway, now that Epson claims to have beaten even the Dmax of glossy silver prints with their latest SC product, the whole thing boils down to fine resolution: silver prints have sort of infinite resolution, so if you want to make a contact print from an 8x10 negative and admire it from 20cm, there is no substitute for silver halide, but for all other practical applications the inkjet prints are getting very close in quality.

 

[Calzone]

Problem to solve is what printer to use to get digital negatives, there've been loads of discussions online about it. But haven't made my mind yet. Important parts are how much it costs, how much it costs to run and the size. I'd like it to be A3 for larger print size (or even A2, but are there even high quality transparencies in that size?).

Check out Piezography.com. Jon Cone has three seperate methods for making digital negatives on Overhead Projection Film that covers silver, alternative and carbon printing. I laid out $250.00 on a credit card as a deposit about two years ago to see a 13x19 inch portfolio to see the various combinations of inks and papers, and one of the samples was a digital negative specifically made for contact printing. Upon return of the portfolio I got my deposit back so the actual cost to me was just the shipping. Over the past two years there has been a lot of advances in Piezography, and it was worth the wait to where I am now finally printing.

Depending on the printer, if there are enough ink slots you can print your proofs on paper and then print your negatives without changing any carts or inksets. The system utilizes Roy Harrington's QTR RIP, Epson printers, but with Jon Cone's curves and inks.

Currently I have just set up warm neutral/selenium MPS split tone glossy system. I still have the capability to print matte, but at this time the extra cart slot for matte black is filled with Piezoflush to maintain the unused nozzle in my 3880. In the future I could adapt my 3880 for digital negative, I'm not there yet, but then again I would likely do this upgrade on a larger printer.

As far as being practical I can see using digital technology to its advantage, contact printing for consistent IQ and results are a real asset if you are printing limited editions, and in the above example customers and dealers are willing to pay the premium for a wet print.

Also at the PhotoPlusExpo I was offered a free print by Digital Silver Imaging. Last month I got my free 8x10 that is a zoomed in crop of a 40x60 inch print of a urban landscape file I shot with a Leica Monochrom at a high shutter speed hand held. I was shocked by the results and IQ. Prior to the PhotoPlusExpo I saw the Sabastion Salgado ehibition at ICP. Basically I can do prints of the same quality straight out of my Monochrom by using DSI.

I know dealers and collectors do not balk at prices and will pay premiums for the craft of something hand made. Although we all use the available technology, the layers, the usage, the adaptation, and the creative use of what technology is available still maintains the concept of hand made craftmanship due to skill and technic. For me Jon Cone has done much of the heavy lifting for me.

My journey is different, but we are on the same road. The best of luck.

Cal

 

[Bruno Gracia]

awesome! A good Epson and patiente...

I'm interested in the Peter Turnley & Voja Mitrovic way:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIqDg7lnxss


Who can make a real negative from a digital file and after wet print?

 

[shadowfox]

Who can make a real negative from a digital file and after wet print?

Bruno, if you ever find the answer to this, I'm all ears 🙂

Not even as small as a 35mm negative, if I can somehow produce a 6x7 (cm) negative from my digital images, I'd be happy as a clam.

 

[Bruno Gracia]

mmm so I understood bad.

There is a machine I thought which can make it and You can develop in the tank as usual for later do a normal wet print.

 

[Calzone]

Problem to solve is what printer to use to get digital negatives, there've been loads of discussions online about it. But haven't made my mind yet. Important parts are how much it costs, how much it costs to run and the size. I'd like it to be A3 for larger print size (or even A2, but are there even high quality transparencies in that size?).

Costs: Epson 3880 about $1K minus a promotional $250.00 rebate. You can sell the $420.00 inkset (B&H price) and buy the chipset you would otherwise salvage that you need for refillable carts from InkJetMall ($180.00). Better yet salvage the chipset from empty carts from someone you know that has a 3880, sell the OEM inkset to further recover costs.

$2.3K for a 27 inch Eizo. This is kinda required, otherwise you are printing blindly and just wasting paper and ink. You really need hardware calibration on your monitor and any software calibration just throws away fidelity that is really required. You need to be able to dim your monitor to about 80-85 Lux so that it basically represents the light reflecting off paper and ink, yet you need the full color gamut.

I dropped about $2.7K in paper, ink and supplies, but that includes two complete sets of refillable carts, a $180 spare chipset (I salvaged one chipset from the OEM inkset) plus additional carts to blend shades 4 and 5 for the ability to extend the split into the highlights by substituting different blends of shades 4 and 5. I bought 220ml bottles of ink (Epson Carts hold about 70ml), and realize that I bought a liter of Piezoflush and the second set of carts is for loading Piezoflush to storing my printer safely without having to worry about clogs. Included in the $2.7K is 150 sheets of 8 1/2x11; 50 sheets of 13x19; and 50 sheets of 17x22. All Jon Cone Type 5 paper. Understand that I also bulked up on the gloss overcoat to save money. If I were printing only matte I would deduct this cost.

The Quadtone RIP from Roy Harrington costs $50.00 as a download, and if you are using a Mac using OSX 10.5 or higher you will also need "Print-Tool" a $39.00 utility.

The above costs reflect a printing system that can print both matte or glossy without changing any ink carts that can print a maximum size of 17x22. A system for printing on both matte and glossy paper and having the capability of making digital negatives exists, but then you have the limitation of only 6 shades of grey instead of seven. There is a workaround on smaller printers that do not have as many ink slots as my 3880 and that involves having to change back and forth changing two carts to print either matte of digital negative. On the Pro printers you can have it all as they support 11 ink slots while my 3880 only supports 9 inks.

Mark Cuban once said, "Go big or don't go." For me the Epson 3880 was a no brainer as far as cost and capabilities.

Cal

 

[Calzone]

Who can make a real negative from a digital file and after wet print?

The limitation is B&W only on my current system: Create a file with my Monochrom; configure my printer by changing out two carts and downloading a new set of Piezography curves; print a digital negative; contact print on Ilford paper.

I would also need a vacuum frame for best results. By using digital capture I have LR5 and Photoshop to manipulate the files to make all the corrections. Contact printing ensures limited editions that are all the same. If a negative gets worn or dammage, I just print another.

On my Epson 3880 I can make digital negatives that are up to 17x22, but with a Leica Monochrom I can easily see that I would easily want a 24 inch printer.

The technology is here. Please read my above post again. I like the idea of contact printing like the large format shooters.

Cal

 

[shadowfox]

The limitation is B&W only on my current system: Create a file with my Monochrom; configure my printer by changing out two carts and downloading a new set of Piezography curves; print a digital negative; contact print on Ilford paper.

I would also need a vacuum frame for best results. By using digital capture I have LR5 and Photoshop to manipulate the files to make all the corrections. Contact printing ensures limited editions that are all the same. If a negative gets worn or dammage, I just print another.

On my Epson 3880 I can make digital negatives that are up to 17x22, but with a Leica Monochrom I can easily see that I would easily want a 24 inch printer.

The technology is here. Please read my above post again. I like the idea of contact printing like the large format shooters.

Cal

Cal, if I had the time, I'd probably do this myself too.

I wonder if there is a printing service that can print to a transparent sheet.