The economy is back on the rise...

Rangefinderfreak said:
I guess the crowd hanging out here, that can invest in cameras, like we read: Multiple hasselblads, leica M:s etc, are hardly those that are suffering from the ups and downs of economy... They are not the homeless in street images, but those that preserve them on film or sensor...
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Kind of my thoughts... If things are so bad, why nobody faints at the price of Leica M9 here, and instead buys a summilux to go with it?
It's your business what to do with your money of course, but why cry about hard times, just having purchased a lens for $4000 ?
 
Ronald M said:
I thought we were had in 2008, 2012 proved it.

Now the problem is the very top do well regardless and the bottom get subsistence welfare. Remember when Romney said this?? The people willing to work can vote and overcome the 1%, but the bottom keep voting for the same thing and getting the same result. Maybe they are happy, I don`t know.

The major problem is big money has bought the government for campaign contributions, free airplane rides, etc in return for favorable tax laws, ignoring antimonopoly laws, repeal of Glass Stegal which had separated investment banks from commercial so the banksters now are allowed to gamble with public money, and the list goes on and on. That is the deal of the century. They get all the profits and the losses are spread over the population. I want in on that. Do you know 40% of QE3 is funneled to the banksters? 34 billion a month in free money. No wonder they panic at the word taper.

Do you feel nobody is representing the middle class which is having to scratch for a living and not be able to save suitable money?

This will change when enough people want it to change. It might be tea party, might be Rand Paul libertarian, time will tell. The public has to wake up.
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Well stated.

How can you live in Detroit, Chicago, Memphis, New York, New Orleans, D.C., California, etc, etc, etc , and keep voting for more of the same?

Second hand camera and lens prices continue at all time lows.

Texsport
 
Saddening.

When the Istanbul thread was briefly frozen, we (too) fought for more political leniency, right here on the forum. And Stephen and the mods courteously let us have it!

And this is what it is used for, Republicans vs Democrats vs All Politics Stink debates. Yuk!

News flash: America is not the center of the universe. Why not have an inquisitive discussion about how the economy is doing in different parts of the world instead.

Al Patterson, if you have a beef with the mods and MikeL, if you have an issue with conservatives, don't use the rest of us for an audience while settling it.
 
Ronald M said:
. . . This will change when enough people want it to change. It might be tea party, might be Rand Paul libertarian, time will tell. The public has to wake up.
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The public must indeed wake up. If they did, perhaps they'd vote for decent, moderate socialism of the sort found in most of Europe. Where, to remind anti-Europeans, the euro has out-performed the dollar pretty much since it was created.

Don't you see that by pretending that your world-view is the only one that is possible or rational, you are denying democracy?

Cheers,

R.
 
Roger Hicks said:
WHY are so many people unable to handle politics?

Is this perhaps why politics itself is so sick? People refuse even to admit that it exists?

Cheers,

R.
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Roger, the problem with these threads is that people use the topic ("will camera prices go up or down?") to spew their political opinion into the atmosphere regardless of it's relevance to the discussion.

We got to the implication here that the Tea Party in America is going to save the country and, as a secondary effect, restore used camera prices. :eek:

I shouldn't care, it's just a thread that lost it's way, I guess.
 
daveleo said:
. . . I shouldn't care . . .
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Exactly. But has it really "lost its way"? If it helps people think about the Tea Party versus... well... pretty much anything, really, then perhaps it has its uses. As for the assertion that "the economy" is improving (even if it is yet again assumed that the United States is the whole world), is it always a bad idea to challenge that assumption?

Finally, I'd challenge "spew". As far as I'm concerned, rational political debate involves less "spewing" than yet more pictures of M-series Leicas.

Cheers,

R.
 
johannielscom said:
Saddening.

When the Istanbul thread was briefly frozen, we (too) fought for more political leniency, right here on the forum. And Stephen and the mods courteously let us have it!

And this is what it is used for, Republicans vs Democrats vs All Politics Stink debates. Yuk!

News flash: America is not the center of the universe. Why not have an inquisitive discussion about how the economy is doing in different parts of the world instead.

Al Patterson, if you have a beef with the mods and MikeL, if you have an issue with conservatives, don't use the rest of us for an audience while settling it.
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You totally missed my point. I have an issue with conservatives being called names. On this site, conservative views are generally treated like a turd in the punch bowl..

Edit: I don't think mikel was being nasty, that was a general view of some nasty threads that have been locked or deleted over the years.

We can disagree, by why are we so nasty when doing so? Roger as the professional writer here seems to be able to disagree without resorting to name calling or being insulting, but he is the exception,not the rule.
 
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Al Patterson said:
You totally missed my point. I have an issue with conservatives being called names. On this site, conservative views are generally treated like a turd in the punch bowl....

We can disagree, by why are we so nasty when doing so? Roger as the professional writer here seems to be able to disagree without resorting to name calling or being insulting, but he is the exception, not the rule.
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Al,

I now see that I indeed missed your point and my apologies for that. And as for the rest of your reply, it's hard to disagree!
 
I'll leave my two cents here and try not to read any further in this post, since I don't like talking politics.

The problem with using retail as an economic barometer is that, in the case of large chains, the profits are going to the top dogs and not translating to real wages for the workforce. I recently worked in creative for a large Seattle retailer that was posting record profits, but couldn't afford to pay us more than what amounted to a step above minimum wage (those who could jumped ship to Amazon!). So I guess I'm really a 'buy local' cheerleader.

That said, I'm glad to see our local camera businesses going strong, and I'm doing all my own processing and scanning to squeeze what I can.
 
MikeL said:
What argument Al?

I stopped blaming others for my problems when I was like, 8.

Edit: I see now, when you went called for the mods, you thought the name calling was directed at specific members?
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Yes, while you might not be attacking any individual per se, I took you message as ALL conservatives are whiny bitches, which I find an offensive statement.

And other posters calling the 1% parasites doesn't lead to pleasant conversations either.
 
Roger Hicks said:
Exactly. But has it really "lost its way"? If it helps people think about the Tea Party versus... well...
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The Tea Party was hijacked by Fox news & rich republicans wishing to make a buck. I went to DC to photograph the original event & rode the bus with democrats, republicans, & independent voters who had enough. OWS was discredited by Fox news & Conservative talk show host who make millions manipulating the masses. Politically speaking, I doubt things will ever change.
 
Al Patterson said:
. . . other posters calling the 1% parasites doesn't lead to pleasant conversations either.
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Hold on. If there really is a "1%" then prima facie they ARE parasites. There is a big difference between being paid (say) $500,000 a year and earning $500,000 a year. The real questions are first, whether the "1%" concept stands close examination, and second whether, if there is a 1%, they actually earn their money. Both are legitimate subjects for debate.

After all, a classic objection to an aristocracy (and indeed to royalty) is that they are parasites. But the classic defence, at least until mediaeval times, was that they fought for the nation. What does the "1%" (if it exists) do for the nation?

Cheers,

R.
 
gb hill said:
The Tea Party was hijacked by Fox news & rich republicans wishing to make a buck. I went to DC to photograph the original event & rode the bus with democrats, republicans, & independent voters who had enough. OWS was discredited by Fox news & Conservative talk show host who make millions manipulating the masses. Politically speaking, I doubt things will ever change.
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"OWS"? Sorry, don't know the abbreviation. But yes, I can well believe the rest of your post.

Cheers,

R.
 
Roger Hicks said:
The public must indeed wake up. If they did, perhaps they'd vote for decent, moderate socialism of the sort found in most of Europe.
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Some of us don't want your moderate socialism. That's one reason why our ancestors left Europe. It was when our greedy leaders started making deals with the rest of the world & sending jobs overseas we started going down hill economic wise.
 
Roger Hicks said:
"OWS"? Sorry, don't know the abbreviation. But yes, I can well believe the rest of your post.

Cheers,

R.
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OWS is Occupy Wall Street, they were the anti tea party. They were big news here about two years ago. They were anti big business and pro social justice. They seemed to fizzle out though.
 
Roger Hicks said:
Hold on. If there really is a "1%" then prima facie they ARE parasites. There is a big difference between being paid (say) $500,000 a year and earning $500,000 a year. The real questions are first, whether the "1%" concept stands close examination, and second whether, if there is a 1%, they actually earn their money. Both are legitimate subjects for debate.

After all, a classic objection to an aristocracy (and indeed to royalty) is that they are parasites. But the classic defence, at least until mediaeval times, was that they fought for the nation. What does the "1%" (if it exists) do for the nation?

Cheers,

R.
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True that not all of those making $500k a year actually EARN it, some do and some don't. Blanket class envy doesn't solve anything. Bill Gates made a lot of money, and a lot of people do work for Microsoft. Some of these "parasites" have actually created jobs. Whether they fairly compensate their employees is a fair question though.
 
Al Patterson said:
OWS is Occupy Wall Street, they were the anti tea party. They were big news here about two years ago. They were anti big business and pro social justice. They seemed to fizzle out though.
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Not so much fizzled out but were run out of camping in the parks for unsanitory conditions by the police. There were some great photo's posted here of the event.
 
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