rayfoxlee
Raymondo
How on earth do you protect yourself against a buyer who strips valuable parts out of your Leica and replaces them with worn out parts? It happens, apparently. I have a very nice M2 with Summicron DR with goggles, both serviced and in very nice condition and working beautifully. Risk eBay? Not sure. About the only safeguard (if it can be called that) is to sell within your own country. Thoughts?
Ray
Ray
Boris Stupak
Well-known
The buyer can keep your item, and send you back a rock in a box. As long as they use delivery confirmation, you lose your money and your item.
You cannot protect yourself. eBay, PayPal and the "buyer" will all have a good laugh at your expense. The more expensive your loss, the merrier.
Why even bother with sending back worn out parts? They can keep everything!
You cannot protect yourself. eBay, PayPal and the "buyer" will all have a good laugh at your expense. The more expensive your loss, the merrier.
Why even bother with sending back worn out parts? They can keep everything!
Has this happened to you? It hasn't happened to me. Hundreds of items sold by me via ebay too.
valdas
Veteran
I agree that Ebay is the place to buy. I rarely sell there, but I often find good deals I can't resist. And I am happy they have such favorable policy towards the buyer. I have recently purchased "mint" F2 which was not mint at all (but still quite OK user camera). Seller agreed with my assessment of the condition and promised to issue the partial refund...and never did. The escalation to the Customer Support solved the issue and I had my refund in less than 12 hours.
Boris Stupak
Well-known
It happened to me once.
I sold a rare and expensive FM stereo tuner from the 1980's to a buyer in Virginia.
He said it didn't work and sent me back a destroyed, rusted, junk stereo receiver that he probably took out of a garbage can.
I was really angry, took photos, filed a criminal complaint with Postmaster, you name it. I proved that the weight of my item was not what he shipped back, and I got a few other sellers to verify he pulled the same stunt with them.
At the time, a few years ago, I was a Powerseller with a perfect feedback record.
No avail. eBay credited him with a full refund, and I lost money and item. There was absolutely nothing I could do. He got away scot-free with his little scheme. He apparently did this all the time.
I am now very reluctant to sell high-end items on eBay.
I sold a rare and expensive FM stereo tuner from the 1980's to a buyer in Virginia.
He said it didn't work and sent me back a destroyed, rusted, junk stereo receiver that he probably took out of a garbage can.
I was really angry, took photos, filed a criminal complaint with Postmaster, you name it. I proved that the weight of my item was not what he shipped back, and I got a few other sellers to verify he pulled the same stunt with them.
At the time, a few years ago, I was a Powerseller with a perfect feedback record.
No avail. eBay credited him with a full refund, and I lost money and item. There was absolutely nothing I could do. He got away scot-free with his little scheme. He apparently did this all the time.
I am now very reluctant to sell high-end items on eBay.
charjohncarter
Veteran
That is a rule of 21st Century life.
Boris Stupak
Well-known
Just not true. You have to develop a feel for the sellers. eBay is just personal ads from millions of small sellers. They may have no idea what they're talking about. They might not even know what "cleaning mark" means, they just copied it from another ad. "As-is" does not mean broken.
You can get the best deals from people who have no idea what they have or what they're talking about.
Stupid sellers, blurry photos, wrong descriptions.....all work in your favor.
If you're a self-righteous perfectionist, this kind of buying is not for you, but if you can make an educated bet, you can get incredible bargains. And your overall risk is low, eBay is slanted completely towards the buyers.
You can get the best deals from people who have no idea what they have or what they're talking about.
Stupid sellers, blurry photos, wrong descriptions.....all work in your favor.
If you're a self-righteous perfectionist, this kind of buying is not for you, but if you can make an educated bet, you can get incredible bargains. And your overall risk is low, eBay is slanted completely towards the buyers.
That is what I would suspect.
If a lens has been cleaned properly, there will be no so-called "cleaning marks" on the front or rear lens elements.
By way of definition, "properly" does not mean cleaning the front and rear elements of a lens 5000 times each week.
eBay isn't perfect, but I don't know anything that is. There are ways to ensure good transactions both on the selling and buying side. Unfortunately many people don't want to think and plan and strategize, so they blame eBay or the system.
There are a few things I would change about eBay but considering all the variables, and the ability to reach the world's largest photographic marketplace, there isn't really all that much for me to complain about.
There are a few things I would change about eBay but considering all the variables, and the ability to reach the world's largest photographic marketplace, there isn't really all that much for me to complain about.
Renato Tonelli
Member
This has been my experience. Some time ago, I sold a rather expensive item that was working perfectly (thoroughly tested it), packed it extremely well and lo and behold it was returned to me broken ("item not as described"). Another scam is when the buyer claims to have had to fix it and wants a partial refund.
68degrees
Well-known
this is the key.
Boris Stupak
Well-known
The other side of the coin is not to be a whining, penny counting crybaby if you lose a bet. Don't make sellers hate eBay and ruin it for everybody. Every flaw in an item is not a personal attack on you, act like an adult.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Highlight: Nor is it much use if you can't be arsed to deal with idiots or to piddle around with returns. This is why I've never bought via eB.
Equally, although I don't think I'm a lot more paranoid than average, I REALLY wouldn't put it past people to lie about what they've received from me out of sheer petty spite, so I've never sold via eB.
Cheers,
R.
Boris Stupak
Well-known
I view eBay more as a sport than a business.
My eBay experiences have been overwhelmingly positive for the most part.
My eBay experiences have been overwhelmingly positive for the most part.
When I consulted for an online sales company in the past, they had a difficult time grasping the concept that the vast majority of sales were profitable and legitmate, and profits from those would more than offset losses from the relatively small number of fraudulent transactions. As an online sales organization, dealing with losses is part of the game.
Ultimately I had to explain to the owner's that they had a choice:
(a) they could police every single transaction to the nth degree, with the goal of having absolutely zero fraudulent transactions and therefore zero losses;
or
(b) they could set a target maximum fraud of X (pick a number, say 2% for sake of discussion) and structure the sales organization accordingly, with accordingly less manpower and overhead and more relaxed procedures, in addition to changes in pricing (among a few other factors) to keep the percentage at or below that figure.
Of course, no one likes to be taken by fraud of any kind, no one wants to accept any losses. But it's just not realistic in a retail sales organization -- they are going to happen, one way or another. The key is to keep the figure within reason...without compromising sales.
To illustrate the argument I used historical sales and fraud figures for the company. I showed them that if their goal was absolutely zero losses, they could certainly reach that goal, with the unfortunate side effect of significantly lower sales volumes.
By using a target figure of acceptable losses (2% in this example) I showed them how this relatively small figure resulted in significantly increased sales, so that the profits from the increased sales by far offset any such losses...
This is exactly how I approach transactions on eBay.
I'm simply willing to accept some degree of risk.
Doing so opens up the opportunity for reward.
If I were to declare that any individual loss is unacceptable, then I shut myself out of eBay, and miss out on all bargains.
If on the other hand I say that I'm ok with 2 out of 100 transactions going sour, then I have 98 transaction opportunities with which to offset any that went sour.
And in my many years of eBay, the percentages of sour transaction are far less than that, probably on the order of 1 out of 500. I have my standard procedures and red flags and such that have essentially reduced losses to near zero. Bear in mind, I *do* walk away from many potential transactions, it's not like I throw caution to the wind.
Yeah, it sucks that I got screwed out of $75 the other day (and even that isn't really accurate; I ended up with an item I will simply sell and will get most or all of it back); , but on the other hand, last month in one transaction I netted a $4k profit.
One has to look at the big picture.
Ultimately I had to explain to the owner's that they had a choice:
(a) they could police every single transaction to the nth degree, with the goal of having absolutely zero fraudulent transactions and therefore zero losses;
or
(b) they could set a target maximum fraud of X (pick a number, say 2% for sake of discussion) and structure the sales organization accordingly, with accordingly less manpower and overhead and more relaxed procedures, in addition to changes in pricing (among a few other factors) to keep the percentage at or below that figure.
Of course, no one likes to be taken by fraud of any kind, no one wants to accept any losses. But it's just not realistic in a retail sales organization -- they are going to happen, one way or another. The key is to keep the figure within reason...without compromising sales.
To illustrate the argument I used historical sales and fraud figures for the company. I showed them that if their goal was absolutely zero losses, they could certainly reach that goal, with the unfortunate side effect of significantly lower sales volumes.
By using a target figure of acceptable losses (2% in this example) I showed them how this relatively small figure resulted in significantly increased sales, so that the profits from the increased sales by far offset any such losses...
This is exactly how I approach transactions on eBay.
I'm simply willing to accept some degree of risk.
Doing so opens up the opportunity for reward.
If I were to declare that any individual loss is unacceptable, then I shut myself out of eBay, and miss out on all bargains.
If on the other hand I say that I'm ok with 2 out of 100 transactions going sour, then I have 98 transaction opportunities with which to offset any that went sour.
And in my many years of eBay, the percentages of sour transaction are far less than that, probably on the order of 1 out of 500. I have my standard procedures and red flags and such that have essentially reduced losses to near zero. Bear in mind, I *do* walk away from many potential transactions, it's not like I throw caution to the wind.
Yeah, it sucks that I got screwed out of $75 the other day (and even that isn't really accurate; I ended up with an item I will simply sell and will get most or all of it back); , but on the other hand, last month in one transaction I netted a $4k profit.
One has to look at the big picture.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
My favorite ebay As-Is item is my Zuiko 24mm 1:2
It's now without a severely-mangled rear "guard" ring which I took off. But I can't find anything wrong with the rest of the lens:
It's now without a severely-mangled rear "guard" ring which I took off. But I can't find anything wrong with the rest of the lens:
TheFlyingCamera
Well-known
I've had more than 99% of my ebay transactions (as a buyer) be perfectly smooth. In over 300 transactions in the last thirteen years, I think I've left other-than-positive feedback a total of thee times. The most recent one was someone selling a Metz TTL SCA module. It was described as in working order, with "some wear" on the cord. There were pictures posted of it, in which no wear was visible. I figured he was just being conservative in the description, kinda like how KEH's "Bargain" is usually everyone elses EX+. The cord arrived, and was non-functional. The module that required batteries would not power on, even with fresh batteries, and the wires were more than worn- the insulation at both ends was flaking off in big chunks. I contacted the seller to let him know it was mis-represented, and would like a refund. His response was rude, and insisted that it had to be the same item in the pictures - something to the effect of "how could I have sent you something that wasn't in the photo?" Gee... I dunno- scour ebay for photos of other items, then steal their photo?. I had to go to Ebay dispute resolution, they ordered a refund, and then the seller dragged his feet on sending the refund. When I left him negative feedback, he had the nerve to contact me asking me to rescind my negative because he depended on having a 100% feedback for his business.
I had another transaction which could have been far more disastrous than that one (the cord was less than $30 with shipping). I had bought a Rollei 2.8C that was described as the seller had tested it, being in good working order, and having "minor" "marks" on the front element of the taking lens. From the photos, it looked like the coating loss on the other Rollei I have, so I figured it would be fine with a CLA. The camera arrived with a 30-year old roll of Verichrome Pan in the body, half exposed, the film transport and shutter release erratic and semi-functional, the shutter and aperture controls stiffer than an arthritic knee, and the front element looked like it tried to do a mating dance with a belt sander. In this case though, even though I felt like the seller blatantly mis-represented the camera, the ebay dispute process went smoothly, he accepted the return, and promptly refunded my money, so I left him positive feedback.
In my experience, the only folks who I've had any issue with, and felt the need to appeal to Ebay's customer support policies for, have been those having something to hide. It's funny though that both those instances were in the last 6 months. So as a buyer I'm glad they've gone to the policy they have, or I would have been screwed. It is getting pretty easy to spot the auctions to avoid though - if they use anything other than clear language to describe the item or their policies regarding the transaction, skip it and move on. If they don't have good, clear, decent sized pictures, skip it and move on. If they don't willingly offer a return/exchange, skip it and move on. I was going to have a caveat to that policy of "consider it if the item is sufficiently rare/exotic/hard-to-find-in-that-condition", but after the above two incidents, it's now a firm NEVER. But as long as you set the rules by which you'll bid/purchase and stick to them diligently, there should be no problem. Then you'll not have your expectations disappointed.
I had another transaction which could have been far more disastrous than that one (the cord was less than $30 with shipping). I had bought a Rollei 2.8C that was described as the seller had tested it, being in good working order, and having "minor" "marks" on the front element of the taking lens. From the photos, it looked like the coating loss on the other Rollei I have, so I figured it would be fine with a CLA. The camera arrived with a 30-year old roll of Verichrome Pan in the body, half exposed, the film transport and shutter release erratic and semi-functional, the shutter and aperture controls stiffer than an arthritic knee, and the front element looked like it tried to do a mating dance with a belt sander. In this case though, even though I felt like the seller blatantly mis-represented the camera, the ebay dispute process went smoothly, he accepted the return, and promptly refunded my money, so I left him positive feedback.
In my experience, the only folks who I've had any issue with, and felt the need to appeal to Ebay's customer support policies for, have been those having something to hide. It's funny though that both those instances were in the last 6 months. So as a buyer I'm glad they've gone to the policy they have, or I would have been screwed. It is getting pretty easy to spot the auctions to avoid though - if they use anything other than clear language to describe the item or their policies regarding the transaction, skip it and move on. If they don't have good, clear, decent sized pictures, skip it and move on. If they don't willingly offer a return/exchange, skip it and move on. I was going to have a caveat to that policy of "consider it if the item is sufficiently rare/exotic/hard-to-find-in-that-condition", but after the above two incidents, it's now a firm NEVER. But as long as you set the rules by which you'll bid/purchase and stick to them diligently, there should be no problem. Then you'll not have your expectations disappointed.
68degrees
Well-known
hahahaha ahahaha