ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
Well, I've taken a couple of gambles and won. But, usually, you are correct.
The Elasticity of Ebay Speak
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Well, I've taken a couple of gambles and won. But, usually, you are correct.
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
This is my experience as well.
Over the past couple of years, eBay has shifted. They will force a seller to refund if the buyer can make a reasonable claim. I think buying is pretty safe; your downside exposure is shipping charges.
Danger is they may also force a refund if the buyer makes an un-reasonable claim.
sparrow6224
Well-known
With experience you learn how to distinguish sellers who don't know what they're talking about from those who do. If you get a description that sounds knowledgeable (proper use of terms, etc) and who has a good rating you can trust the item is as described. The only time I have worries is with non English speakers where I can't tell if they know what they're talking about or not. But even then it's pretty easy to determine how likely the item is to being in the shape it's purported to be in.
As for shill bidding -- there isn't all that much of that. All you have to do is determine what you're willing to pay, use a sniping program, and forget about it. Either you'll get the item for your price or you won't. End of story.
As for shill bidding -- there isn't all that much of that. All you have to do is determine what you're willing to pay, use a sniping program, and forget about it. Either you'll get the item for your price or you won't. End of story.
btgc
Veteran
As for old gear, then buyers have forced things how they are, probably. People read on internet how magically draws lens A or how incredible experience is to use camera B and shell out lots of money for...let's face it, garbage from a closet, in a sense that seller has no any clue about condition of it. And ebay has reacted to back crowd generating their income. Without all these fanboys things would cost accordingly - same camera, fully inspected and CLAed, would cost tens or hundred times more from a trusted technician and mere peanuts from someone without knowledge who is scoring yard sales to sell at profit on ebay.
Sellers wanted profit - they got it. Pick up gear for nothing, describe it as minty, peppery or spiced up and sell for a top dollar.
Buyers wanted bargains - they got 'em. Read on internet about current hot magic camera, bid on one and after discovering it's basically a piece of history instead of working equipment, make claim and get back your money (hard earned, for some of us).
Technicians also are winners - people buy up obsolete stuff and some of them choose to restore it or at least, service - which generates labour for technicians. If all would just buy next digital gear every year, technicians would quit their businesses and go babysitting.
Sellers wanted profit - they got it. Pick up gear for nothing, describe it as minty, peppery or spiced up and sell for a top dollar.
Buyers wanted bargains - they got 'em. Read on internet about current hot magic camera, bid on one and after discovering it's basically a piece of history instead of working equipment, make claim and get back your money (hard earned, for some of us).
Technicians also are winners - people buy up obsolete stuff and some of them choose to restore it or at least, service - which generates labour for technicians. If all would just buy next digital gear every year, technicians would quit their businesses and go babysitting.
I don't expect a great deal of equipment purchased from a relative of the owner, for instance, and bid accordingly. What I find very frustrating is the numerous purchases I have made from sellers who deal only in camera equipment, claim a level of expertise and professionalism commensurate with their selling prices, and which have been found to be significantly not as described on arrival. As a self taught camera repairer, if I am able to spot a serious defect thirty seconds after unpacking a camera I don't see why a seller who talks themselves up in their listings shoud not be expected to. Eg. the various Rollei TLRs that arrive with focus misalignments, excessive play in focus cams, shutter speeds that stick. These are not difficult things to check if you know how and the type of sellers I refer to claim to and should be able to assess them.
Certainly I agree it is possible to return these goods but frankly I'm tired of incurring return postage as a result of lack of due diligence or negligence on the part of sellers. If it can be proven a seller has stuffed up I believe they should have to pay for the return (and indeed, the few really good sellers of camera equipment I've dealt with have done so readily). This may sound harsh but I believe that it is in the long run, the only way to see improvements in due diligence from sellers. And as a buyer who has purchased in good faith, I can't see why the party who has failed to meet their conditions of the sale contract, should not be the one required to remedy this.
By my own admission I'm much better at buying kit than selling it, but on those occasions I do so, I take pains to accurately describe the item, and to ensure it's fully working. If it isn't when I acquire it, I make it so. I also offer return postage at my expense if a buyer is dissatisfied with the item. I've yet to have one come back, probably because my descriptions are accurate in the extreme.
Cheers
Brett
Certainly I agree it is possible to return these goods but frankly I'm tired of incurring return postage as a result of lack of due diligence or negligence on the part of sellers. If it can be proven a seller has stuffed up I believe they should have to pay for the return (and indeed, the few really good sellers of camera equipment I've dealt with have done so readily). This may sound harsh but I believe that it is in the long run, the only way to see improvements in due diligence from sellers. And as a buyer who has purchased in good faith, I can't see why the party who has failed to meet their conditions of the sale contract, should not be the one required to remedy this.
By my own admission I'm much better at buying kit than selling it, but on those occasions I do so, I take pains to accurately describe the item, and to ensure it's fully working. If it isn't when I acquire it, I make it so. I also offer return postage at my expense if a buyer is dissatisfied with the item. I've yet to have one come back, probably because my descriptions are accurate in the extreme.
Cheers
Brett
rfaspen
[insert pithy phrase here]
I'm only interested in items if they are "rare". Ebay is the only place I can reliably find rare items. Quite a few of them.
Everything is mint, and rare, on ebay, right? 🙂
noisycheese
Normal(ish) Human
Thanks SO much for setting it up that way, eBay. It's good to know that as a corporation, you view sellers as expendable.
It's great that the billionaires who make policy at eBay are always looking out for the little guy who made them billionaires... 🙄
68degrees
Well-known
will postage both ways also be refunded?
Return postage is on the buyer, although not always. I've had ebay give me credits to offset this.
68degrees
Well-known
I love this thread.
CliveC
Well-known
Also, does "cleaning marks" pretty much mean the lenses are scratched to hell?
swoop
Well-known
Even if you say sold "as is" and "no returns" ebay/paypal terms of service allow for like a 3 or 7 day return period.
The issue is, and I've run into this before, is renters. People who buy cameras/lenses and then want to return them after a weekend vacation despite nothing being wrong with them.
jsrockit
Moderator
He's stating that it works fine, it's AS-IS because it is used and the box may not look new, and returns won't be accepted (unless not as described). I see this language all the time and it has nothing to do with peope being dishonest. I've bought and sold hundreds of items on ebay and have never been ripped off. It is not a free for all of crime that some people on this site make it out to be.
jsrockit
Moderator
Exactly...
fuji645
Established
Adding to this chorus, I've purchased a lot of stuff on Ebay, some at auction, some at "buy now", most domestic, a few from Hong Kong and Latvia. Haven't been burned. You have to know the worth of what you're buying, the integrity of the seller (I never deal with sellers with less than 99.5% ratings) and the amount you're willing to pay. Haven't bought anything requiring repair before use nor have had to return anything. Overall, Ebay & Paypal are very efficient mechanisms for today's online commerce.
archeophoto
I love 1950's quality
Yup, that's not any different then buying from any other retail store. Return policies is what we all created. We are all consumers and we all returned something at some point in time.
It's just if it happens to us, we are very vulnerable and think it's all not fair. While we all have absolutely no problem returning a lens that we just bought in a store if we don't like it.
If you check out the threads about KEH for example, everybody raves on how great their return policy is.
It's simple: If we are buyers we want easy, breezy return policies, if we are sellers we want no return policy at all. We can't have it both ways unfortunately.
It's just if it happens to us, we are very vulnerable and think it's all not fair. While we all have absolutely no problem returning a lens that we just bought in a store if we don't like it.
If you check out the threads about KEH for example, everybody raves on how great their return policy is.
It's simple: If we are buyers we want easy, breezy return policies, if we are sellers we want no return policy at all. We can't have it both ways unfortunately.
68degrees
Well-known
my money is good, I expect the item to be good. Sellers want to trade their broken items for my good spendable money. They play stupid like they dont know whats wrong with it and all this non-comittal speak. Thats why they use words like "It should work" and "Minty" . I would never buy anything that said "Minty" thats red flag right there they are trying to rip you off. "Appears to be working" "Ex++" photo shows considerable dent on corner. You have to ask to get them to tell you about the dent after they said its EX++. I could go on and on.. Having said that I never got a bad deal on ebay but I credit my own due dilligence for that and not buy from scammers insofar as my bs meter and scam detector are calibrated properly.
noisycheese
Normal(ish) Human
That is what I would suspect.
If a lens has been cleaned properly, there will be no so-called "cleaning marks" on the front or rear lens elements.
By way of definition, "properly" does not mean cleaning the front and rear elements of a lens 5000 times each week. 🙄
btgc
Veteran
ebay is a model savanna - everyone is looking for a snatch without being eaten or running too hard - buyers, sellers, ebay owners....sometimes it works, sometimes not.
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