Olsen
Well-known
Roger Hicks said:
- Well put.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Yes, but why would anyone WANT 10 pairs of Docker trousers? I have to confess I'm not familiar with the brand, but I assume they're expensive. So let me see if I'm getting this right: instead of buying 10 pairs of overpriced pantaloons at excessive Norwegian prices, you (in the sense of 'one', not you personally) can have the same pair of trousers AND contribute to global warming and unnecessary air travel as well. Sounds like a winner!Olsen said:
Last edited:
retow
Well-known
Roger Hicks said:
Olsen
Well-known
Al Patterson said:
If you think serious about this; go to Norway!
Here is already a pritty large american 'community'. Most of them within the oil business, but also scientists, architects and finance. My neighbour, Craigh Dikes, architect (Library of Alexandria, Egypt, Oslo Opera House etc.) of Dallas, Texas - for the time being working for a norwegian company (Snøhetta) in New York. He sayes it is 'impossible' to move back home (he is still a norwegian citizen, tax payer and so on). Then he have to wave goodby to the lavish norwegian 'too good to be true' pension, health care coverage etc.
retow
Well-known
Olsen said:
Future will tell whether this is true. Compared to my Solms glass, my three ZM's feel built to lower manufacturing tolerances, higher precicision, very sturdy and all three at identically high standards. Re Leica there is some (machanical) identifiable imperfection with each of my leica lenses, though not impacting their optical performances.
Maybe some materials used by Leica are of "superior" quality, but manufacturing is definitely not better than ZM's.
retow
Well-known
Olsen said:
but moving back would give him access to Dockers, how would you rate this intangible value ...............
sherm
Well-known
Olsen said:
The issue here is Capitalism.... not Democracy. The almighty dollar at least here in the US wins over balance every day every time.
Olsen, being a Norwegian family I appreciate your earlier comments regarding debt. My Bestafar always said "you have to have more put days then take days at the bank"!!!
The majority of US citizens think nothing of going into debt whether for necessities or for "toys". It's one of the biggest challneges we face here today. Not that I'm a fan of polls, but it would be interesting to see how many RFF members actually own their equipment instead of the bank owning their equipment??
My father who is a banker very often says that for a large majority of their customers, if they were out of work for more than 60 days many would have to file bankruptcy. Too many people living just on the monthly "cash flow" than actually having a budget. This will become an even greater issue in the next 5 years as the housing industry it was announced today has seen the greatest slow down in the last 10 years. This market is used as one of the economic indicators here in the US.
Olsen
Well-known
Roger Hicks said:
Ha, ha!
'A pair of Dockers' (american brand) costs about 800 NOK in Norway and 'about' 300 NOK in NY, - to what I hear. Then the norwegians don't go to New York 'just for the pants'. But for the shows at Broadway too. And all that. But while you're at it, just grab with anything that will fit into your suitcase. It is bound to be far cheaper than back home. For a while.
Climate wise? It is a catastrophy. Sure. Within a few years we will all walk in shorts.
MikeL
Go Fish
I love it when one person has 'the truth'. Those people are so proud of themselves, and comforted that that's the way things are. Thanks!
Olsen
Well-known
retow said:
- This is very much the case!
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Capitalism works. There's no doubt about that. But surorisingly few people seem to have much of a grasp of how it works.sherm said:
One of the underpinnings -- perhaps THE underpinning -- is the substitution of capital for labour. A water mill (capital intensive) replaces a lot of querns or pestles and mortars (labour intensive). The same can be said of just about every innovation since.
What is really bizarre is that today we are seeing the substitution of capital for leisure...
I'm not entirely clear on your/your father's distinction between budget and cash flow, however. Surely a budget is a matter of balancing likely income against expenditure, building in such safeguards/surpluses as may seem prudent, taking such chances as may seem realistic, with a fall-back position in case of (reasonably probable) trouble, e.g. I don't worry very much about earthquakes where I live because there has been one in the last 1000 years. But I took care to buy a house on ground too high to be easily flooded.
Then again, I don't think I owe anyone anything at the moment, unless there's a small balance on one of my credit cards, which I use from time to time to keep them active in case I ever need them again. I even own my house outright.
Cheers,
Roger
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
retow said:but moving back would give him access to Dockers, how would you rate this intangible value ...............
I could buy 20 pairs of Dockers in the states before I leave, which should cover the cosst of my flight when I sell them in Norway...
Dockers usually cost maybe $30 to $40 a pair, although I wait for the sales and pay $25 to $30. I usually have only 2 or 3 pairs at any given time. This is the uniform of the "business casual" class in the IT industry.
And I wish the dollar would stop dropping. The MP I want keeps getting more expensive. It used to be around 2 weeks pay, now I'd almost need to trade in my car to pay for one. (it is a cheap car...)
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
sherm said:
I own all of my cameras, RFs, SLRs and the digital P&Ss. I bought them with bonus checks or out of cash flow when I was making more money a few years ago.
I have about one year of expenses in the bank, but it took me 20 years to build up to that. It could be gone with one bad year, but then I guess I could eBay most of what I own before the bank takes the house...
Olsen
Well-known
Al Patterson said:
25$ are you kidding!? Over here; 145 - 150 $! They - Dockers - are screwing us! I bought a pair in Helsinki, Finland, last week (going by car and ferry - also a catastrophy climate wise) and thought that was cheap: Price € 80 = 114 $. Over here they are 'business casual' in all industries except for shipping & finance (and the undertakers...hu!)
Olsen
Well-known
You are an admirer of Herold Pinter, are you Mike? He said this when he got the Nobel Price:MikeL said:
"There are no hard distinctions between what is real and what is unreal, nor between what is true and what is false. A thing is not necessarily either true or false; it can be both true and false.
I believe that these assertions still make sense and do still apply to the exploration of reality through art. So as a writer I stand by them but as a citizen I cannot. As a citizen I must ask: What is true? What is false?"
The rest you can read here: http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,,1661516,00.html
retow
Well-known
Olsen said:
Applying a "Dockers Index" your legendary car mechanic's Norwegian compensation does not look that inpressive anymore. Guess the US mechanic can buy more Dockers with his US paycheck.
Olsen
Well-known
Al Patterson said:
- What you describe is a tough situation. Very tough! I must say that I have the greatest admiration for you americans who can live under such tough circumstances!
I do have a well payed job, but in today's changing environment that could indeed change. And the falling dollar, directy and indirecty could be the cause. That's why I say 'the party is over' for us europeans too if recession hits USA. But I can rely on all these norwegian social prorams that will keep me (us; my wife and I) afloat practically untill I am a pensionaire. We will not have to touch savings.
Olsen
Well-known
retow said:Applying a "Dockers Index" your legendary car mechanic's Norwegian compensation does not look that inpressive anymore. Guess the US mechanic can buy more Dockers with his US paycheck.
Sure, you are right.
But I would still be a car mechanic in Oslo compared to New York. It is not only a matter of number of Dockers that your salary covers, but benefits like health care, education for your kids, pension and all that. I am in no doubt that the total package is cheaper over here. Far cheaper.
akptc
Shoot first, think later
This falling dollar thing just HAS to change soon. For the first time ever, my sister, who works in Canada, now makes more money than I do, and just can't have that!
x-ray
Veteran
Al Patterson said:
That's the truth! I've been self employed most of my career and weathered the bad times and saved during the good. No paid vacations or free benifits of any kind. As a self employed person you get out what you're willing to put in. On the other hand being self employed offers a degree of security that few people have if you're a smart and hard working business person. Also you'll rarely find anyone working for a company outside of the CEO or CFO and corporate heads that are making decent money. The self employed have more potential and fewer obstacles between them and wealth.
Lessons for the self employed center around living within ones lowest average income with no debt of any kind. Save money and build no debt of any kind. Pay your house off as soon as possible and save to buy cars with cash. Use credit cars only for business and only to a degree that the card can be paid off each month. Save save save money!
My wife and I have absolutely no debt including our house and businesses. We pay cash for cars and desire nothing that we can't pay cash for. There's nothing that we want enough to go into debt for if we can't pay cash. We both sleep great at night and love every month when the bills don't come in.
Self employed life isn't all roses. There are ups and downs and taxes and insurance kill us. Other than taxes the greatest outlay of money each month is insurance with over $10,000 per year going to health insurance alone. Add business, home, equipment, auto and life insurance and it's really smacks one hard. I figure my total insurance premiums run around $20,000 per year. Nuts isn't it!