The future of film in the context of current economy

[squirrel$$$bandit]

"If there is a Leica on a shelf, what happens to it when the 60-80 year-old owner passes away?"

Somebody on RFF buys it from the widow and then sells it in the classifieds for a nice profit 🙂

....to someone who then uses it to obsessively shoot pictures, on Tri-X, of random people on the street. Mission accomplished!

 

[Semushkin]

It's not film I am worried about, it's digital!



kenrockwell.com/tech/why-we-love-film.htm

 

[Al Kaplan]

When I was a kid in the 1940's and '50's most people had a box camera. It usually made 8 exposures on a roll of film. There'd be a Christmas picture, a shot or two of the kids in their Easter outfits, maybe a graduation picture, and the roll would get finished over the summer. Kodak made film in sizes like 828, 118, 122, 116, 616, 127, 120, 620, 35mm, and probably others as well. There were a lot less people around back then. Kodak in the U.S. had competition from DuPont and Ansco. It'd be interesting to find out just how many rolls of film Kodak sells now (including single use cameras) compared to what they sold in 1950. My guess is that they're selling more per month now than they used to sell per year back then. In the last year or so both Kodak and Fuji introduced new lines of pro color films, and not too many years ago both Ilford and Kodak introduced "tabular grain" films like T-Max while keeping Plus-X, Tri-X, etc. on the shelves. Fuji updated their line-up. Kodak has invested many, many millions in Chinese film production. Somebody is buying film.

 

[Fred Burton]

Do you think digital has no future?

 

[Fred Burton]

Al, according to an industry profile I read a few weeks ago - I'll try to find the link - there were 2.2 billion photos taken in the U.S. in 1960, presumedly all on film. 🙂

Looking at the cost of the film and processing alone for that many photos, and in 1960 dollars, I'm guessing in todays dollars they were making billions every year off film sales.

 

[raid]

I am

I am

Somebody is buying film.

Al,

Not only do I buy film in large quantities, I also use film in large quantities. I noted in the Middle East that young people use digital.

 

[MCTuomey]

Economy? No. What is killing film is that you can't walk into a Wal-mart, at least in my area, and buy a film camera of any kind. If consumers can't buy film cameras, they aren't going to buy film. Without all these consumers, we as niche players can't keep film alive for long. The majority of film still being sold, according to the industry, is large format film, not 35mm film. Perhaps we should all buy 4x5's! 😉

I started putting together a 4x5 kit this year, should have the bits and pieces together over the winter. I figured my meager photographic life wouldn't be complete without trying my hand and eye at LF. Can be done nearly for the cost of a beginning RF kit, actually, or maybe less. My sense is that places like Freestyle will be around serving film shooters for a long time, provided we do our part: buy, shoot, and process film.

Supply doesn't die where demand exists. So let's keep the demand side going. Shoot, then shoot some more.

 

[Nikon Bob]

Small point, Kodak sold off it's interest in Lucky Films about a year ago if I recall correctly. Yes Lucky is still around but is not part of Kodak.

Bob

 

[gb hill]

As long as we all keep shooting film they will make it. Serious photographers shooting digital has come to film & will contuine to come to film. Digital has stepped up to medium format & even a full frame 35mm digital camera is inferior to MF. The dinky sensors on dslr's & P&S cameras, plus spending so much time post processing behind a computer to make ones photos satisfactory for viewing will get old for most people.

 

[mh2000]

what do you mean no cameras in Walmart etc.???? There are a bunch of different disposables! And they are all loaded with film and people actually shoot them all the time.

*I* still shoot film EOS... hated my 20D and it sits on the shelf until I'm selling something on ebay.

Yeah, I also noticed that Walmart and Walgreens pulled a bunch of films and then later restocked them...

Yeah... I'll just adjust to current reality and get by... I don't horde films that get discontinued (even though I did love my TP)...

 

[Fred Burton]

"There are a bunch of different disposables! And they are all loaded with film and people actually shoot them all the time."

Which would explain why Wal-Mart is systematically closing its in-store film processing centers like they did in my town? I guess you can still send the disposables to Fuji from the little Fuji processing Kiosk. Kind of mixed signals.

I guess one way to read the tea leaves would be to watch the expiration dates on film boxes and see if they advance going forward.

 

[sevo]

The demise of in-store minilabs does not mean the end of film itself - minilabs did not get mass deployed until the eighties, which makes them a ephemeral phenomenon in the total timescale of photography.

 

[aad]

Do you think digital has no future?

I think stand-alone digital cameras are more likely to disappear than film, as cell phone cameras improve. Prosumer digital cameras are more likely in danger in the current economy than film, as well.

If consumers dig in their heels, they'll make do with whatever camera they have. They don't need to buy anything to keep shooting. Gosh, most of the P&S digital shooters I know seldom take the pictures off the camera.

Film people, though, need film.

 

[gb hill]

Freestyle is primarily in the analog film business and to me they seem to be doing well. From what I have read the sells of the new Ektar 100 is huge. I bought some as well as the new Arista Premium 400. Legacy Pro is a new film comming in January & I plan to buy some of that also. The sales of B&W films seems really good right now. Let's replace threads like this with threads like.... http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=66609

 

[Fred Burton]

Well, I don't think prosumer digital cameras are in more trouble than prosumer film cameras. Nobody is making prosumer film cameras. They already died. I don't know anyone in my circle of friends (outside of a few photo nuts like me) who even owns a working film P&S anymore.

 

[Fred Burton]

gb hill, I hope film lasts forever! I shoot film almost every day!

And, yeah. The XA is a cool camera.

 

[sepiareverb]

Just another excuse to drag up this old saw. As said above, film will continue to be available to those who want it, just like oil paint or egg tempera is. If one can buy 1114 or 1417 film today I don't feel any need to justify the worry that 35mm will disappear anytime soon. How many people shoot 1114 these days besides me?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/75425-REG/Ilford_1743225_HP5_Plus_11x14_25.html

 

[Harry Lime]

There are also many more complicated mechanical machines, that people learn to repair and do repair, than mechanical cameras. Some professionals and hobbyists have learned to service their own cameras. I see no problem with new people learning to service old cameras, it is not magic. Most of those cameras are anyway pretty simple (after all).

While that may be true you are talking about a very, very, very small percentage of photographers. 99.9% of people are not going to be able to repair their own camera. Cleaning up a screwmount Leica may be relatively straightforward if you have some skill, but working on something like a Leica M that contains almost 1500 parts is a very different story.

 

[Fred Burton]

Interestingly enough, Sepia, Kodak says large format film is outselling 35mm film. Which makes sense, if you think about it.

 

[sepiareverb]

Interestingly enough, Sepia, Kodak says large format film is outselling 35mm film. Which makes sense, if you think about it.

Because Kodak has few decent roll film offerings? 😀

I suspect though that it (film) will become hellishly expensive as it takes on this new roll!

Not necessarily. Paints are not astronomically more expensive than when I last painted regularly some 20 years ago, despite having many more "hazardous" ingredients than film. I suppose when oil starts to run out the filmbase could become the most expensive part...