The Kiev Project - Part 1A - Performing the "X-Ray Test"

R

ruben

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Today I got my training Kiev, a 4AM model. Therefore my schedule for the next weeks is as follows, more or less:

This weekend I will perform the X-Ray Test, on color film for quick saving time processing. Who ever wants to do it on BW film I see no problem and possible advantages in judging the negatives.

The following weekend I will post my evaluation of the results, which I don't know yet and cannot know what waits for me.

After this second weekend, the following third one I will post my proposals for organizing the place you are going to work on your camera, and some common tools and other kitchen, closet and bathroom devices we will be using. But some things will have to be bought. Remember you are dealing with me, a fairly stretched budget guy who uses his imagination for saving money, on one hand, but loosing it a lot in exchange of the fascination of GAS, on the other hand.

THE IMPERATIVE OF PERFORMING THE X-RAY TEST

Much of the story was already written at the post "The Kiev Project - Part-1"
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40422
which it will not harm too much to re-read it, post #1 only if you are short of time.

But now, in order to gather myself further moral forces to actually do the test, I would like to deepen the reasons behind this test. BTW, I hate tests !

As you may remember, or re-read, our test consisted in making a very specific series of exposures on our most trusted camera, and then after rewinding leaving the film tonge out, to repeat the same series on our training Kiev. The logics behind each series is not so much to test camera accuracy but consistency. Through the different combinations of each series we will be allowing to pass through our lens, exactly the same amount of light, resulting in a series of processed negatives bluntly showing the same negative density (opacity/translucency) from frame to frame.

If our "most trusted camera" is not consistent, then we have learnt something about trust and that camera.

If on the contrary, our most trusted camera shows equal density from frame to frame, this will show us this camera can be further used as our Master camera.

Since we are going to operate this Master camera in manual mode, in fact we will be testing its shutter consistency. If the density of the processed negative is the same both at f/2 and speed 1/1000, and at f/16 and speed 1/30, with all stands in the middle - then we know for sure this shutter is working perfectly, or rather consistently perfect.

Then when we inspect the Kiev negatives we will learn the same and much more. Are all speed consistent or not? Have the Kiev negatives the same density as those of our Master camera ? In other words, what is the real condition of our training Kiev before we put our hands inside.

In case our training Kiev is not consistent in its shutter operation, producing negatives of different density, then we will learn a) that was our starting point to be contrasted latter when the camera is after our CLA. b) how close the densities are to those of our master camera to start with? This will have cutting edge implications when we arrive at the distensioning phase. After CLA our shutters will be tensioned or distensioned by testing, not any pre-arranged formula. We will achieve exactly what we want. Distensioning produces more softness, too much distensioning produces shifting speeds. Each of us will decide his/her best compromise. The Kievs we will build, will be Kievs a la carte, and in more than one sense.

Along the way we will also learn about the quality of both lenses, that in our master camera and that on our training Kiev.

Take note that this X-Ray test is the only one that not lies, because what you see is what you will actually get.

A word about this latter assertion. Some of us which have manual printed prints, know that a print may look perfect, but only with a close timed one besides, we can really decide which is better. This speaks on behalf of our negative side by side comparizon.

Now a second word. Here and there two alternative ways have been designed to test the accuracy of the Kiev/Contax shutter. One of them is the building of an electronic device showing the results on a computer screen. I do not know how to build such a device out of my ignorancy for that matter. But provided I knew or had such a device I would have to test it in the same way I am doing what I have called The X-Ray Test. Because you are not going to print prints or scan from that device screen, but from your actual negatives !

Then there is a trick, so to speak, consisting in lifting some weight from one of the Kiev/Contax curtains, and provided equilibrium is obtained, then accuracy will follow. I can hardly abstain from terming this as "ridiculous". First, the exerts disagree among themselves about how much that weight should weight. Then, it is very obvious to me that different Kiev/Contaxes with different levels of CLA and dirt will produce different resistance to the ideal weight (which the experts disagree about), and consequently show different points of equilibrium.

As for the way of Mr Scherer, about a fixed amount of tensioning turns, obviously this must work, if you are Mr Scherer doing time after time the exhausting job he does for each of his babies.

With the X-Ray Test, what you see is what you get. "Ahh" you may say, but what if your master camera is consistently shifted for lower or higher speeds than those from the absolute accuracy ?

If you study this objection, you will find the answer. Let's suppose, or in fact this actually happens, that we have several light meters. Which is best? I could gather at home a Concilium of digital meter users and try to check mine. But here common sense is called for. Our best light meter is our most consistent one, giving the best exposures at very different light situations. It is my deepest belief that in Photography gear issues, consistency is the practical, absolute accuracy - just a crazy idea. Otherwise, before perfoming the X-Ray Test, test in the same way all your cameras and try to decide which is better.

WHAT I WILL BE USING FOR THE X-RAY TEST

a) Olympus OM4Ti, with latest Zuiko standard (one of the best performer lens in its cathegory.

b) Training Kiev with the standar Helios it came with.

c) Tripod

d) Very Important: no matter what I have written till now, the positioning of the Kiev camera must be set at 1 meter from subject to the back side of the camera, according to a hand roller meter, while the camera focusing rangefinder will not be used (only for curiosity). Instead the camera distance ring will be set exactly at the mark "1 meter". With Kiev/Contaxes, the rangefinder mechanism may not be accurate, but the camera distance marks are accurate. In other words, the rangefinder mechanism is mimick of the distance between lens and film plane, marked by the distance ring. We will use the original, instead of the mimick, and latter check that mimick.

e) Hand meter.


As it happens with tests, surprises arise. Sometimes small ones, sometimes dramatic. Wish me not to desperate, and stay cool and factual.


Cheers,
Ruben


PS
For an Outline of the whole Kiev Project, see
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40454

and add your comments, disagreements, ideas, etc.
 
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Test done. Negatives of course will be processed during the week.

About doing the test
A small improvement of the previously written: In order to secure the distandce ring doesn't move during the test, changing f/stops etc, I taped the distance ring on 1 meter, making it impossible to move.

BTW in a sunny day you can obtain the desired equivalents by using ISO 200 film at an open shade. An "open shade" is a photographic sleng for a shadow created by a single big wall during a sunny day.

About the training camera I bought
The winding knob is medium stiff, the rangefinder slightly off at infinity and more off at close distances. I expect light leaks too. In a single word: Perfect !

Personally and psycologically I prefer much more to open a bad camera and fix it, to having to open an accurate camera for the sake of the training. Not to speak about the case that out of this sloppy camera I end the Project with a really perfect one.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
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work has hampered the procurement of a test subject for this project just yet. I am fixing that this weekend. So I will be a couple of weeks behind, but I will catch up fast and contribute where I can

Ken
 
Hi Ken,
Don't worry at all, we are going to go slow slow, and I am to set my guidelines so that everyone will have a fixed place at home enablimg him/her to leave and return at will. It is not a Math course, but something to go easy easy, with fun and patience.

As said above, in two weekends from now I will only be proposing for discussion how to set up at home.

I expect and hope people joining even quite after the Project is over. The material will be written and those joining afterwards will just have to post their commentaries and questions at the propper threads.

So there is no reason to rush. I am not forgetting you nor leaving you behind.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
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OK, I have my Kiev 4am ready to go, a voightlander r2 as my trusted camera, a meter with new batteries, and a tape measure...

I just need a nice sunny day and a couple of hours of spare time... plus a glass of wine or two :D
 
I have had the glass or two of red wine, but no camera... Plus, with the past few weeks of craziness at work, I haven't done a thing this weekend... except smoke some fine cigars and relax
 
TVphotog said:
I have had the glass or two of red wine, but no camera... Plus, with the past few weeks of craziness at work, I haven't done a thing this weekend... except smoke some fine cigars and relax

Ahhh nice... it's all gone a bit manic at my place of work, so I've not had time to try Ruben's excellent plan yet... and no cigars :(

Cheers

Matt
 
OK, my negatives from the X-Ray Test arrived.

The good news is that my Olympus OM4Ti is performing spectacularly perfect, although I am hardly using it once a year. This means I do have a Master camera to rely on for further tests.

As for my training Kiev 4AM, I specially purchased for the Kiev Project, I am short of words.... disaster perhaps ?

First the unbelievable happened, a 4AM with fixed spool is overlapping the frames in a scandalous manner. I can clearly see the first frame and half of the last, with all in the middle being overlapped.

From what can be seen, the camera consistently underexposed (the negs are lighter looking) both at 1/1000 and at 1/5. My eye estimation of this underexposure is something like at least 1 full stop, or more. Meaning the shutter is byassed by a full hundred pecent.

But it the camera underexposed, meaning less light entered than due, this means the shutter is operating too fast - hence the source of less light entering and lighter negs. And this means the shutter is too much OVERTENSIONED.

Thus for example when set for 1/125, it actually shoots at 1/250. Yet all these is secondary to the scandalous overlapping.

Nevertheless there is a point of optimism. The first frame, set for 1/1000 at f/2 and only 1 meter from subject, is indeed sharp. For your knowledge the widest aperture at the shortest distance is the most challenging test you can put a lens and camera through. This means two things, the first is that as assumed in general, the distance scale of the Kiev and Contax is trusty and accurate , being this a very strong point of this breed.

Secondly the only chance a Kiev/Contax may not provide sharp results when set by the distance scale, is only if either the lens, or the camera mount, or both are misaligned. A somewhat rare case, but not with this scandalous Kiev, already carrying its share of deseases.

Now for an exterior examination of the camera
The first thing to notice is the winding knob is stiff, very stiff, denouncing the seller has not even taken care for the most obvious things. The camera wasn't checked at all, although crying loudly. Then the rangefinder at infinity and at 1 meter is not accurate, although not by dramatic proportions.

The model is an eightyfour one, which is the like I most recommend, when sold as mint or like new. This camera was not sold as such and I bought it purposedly taking into account it will pointless to buy a spotless camera to feel myself like a beginer. I wanted a camera with problems, and this is what I earnestly won, althugh I didn't imagine the situation will be so disastrous. This specific camera seems to have been abused and then thrown in an unhealthy environment.

A further lesson. if I take into account my good 4AMs, is that accurate frame spacing is not automatically guaranteed by the fixed spool being fixed out there. Therefore this issue is to be dealt with later, by research, trial or repairman.

What a start !

Cheers,
Ruben

PS
Next weekend, my proposal for setting up our working table, some shopping list and my reasons for each.
 
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I just purchased my Kiev 4A for the project. It should be here in a couple weeks or so. I will let ya'll know what it looks like when it arrives.
Ken
 
TVphotog said:
I just purchased my Kiev 4A for the project. It should be here in a couple weeks or so. I will let ya'll know what it looks like when it arrives.
Ken

Congratulatons Ken,
you seem to be serious, and this gives me strength.

As a parallel measure by me, although unconnected with you, I have ordered a Kiev 2a, at $85 before ship (I expect crap for this price), in order to show both the 4AM and 2A disassembling at the same time.

Of course, when we arrive at the disassemble stage, it will be showed with full pics, as most of the following Parts of our project. I assume within 2 or 3 weekends maximum.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
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And I am the reverse of this, by using a 4A bought for 34$ I hope to resurrect my 2A. I need to run some film throught the 2A to begin with... Hopefully, the 4A will be here quickly.
 
ruben said:
..........As a parallel measure by me, although unconnected with you, I have ordered a Kiev 2a, at $85 before ship (I expect crap for this price), in order to show both the 4AM and 2A disassembling at the same time.


2A arrived today. Crap indeed.

Cheers,
Ruben




a) I cannot complain I don't get what I pay for.

b) Notice Ukrainan mail service: camera was paid to seller by May 22
 
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I sure hope that all of this can be done with absolute consistency. With so many variables possible, from camera to development to printing, it seems to me that there is a LOT of room for going off base.

And last but not least, WHY BOTHER??? Except for some kind of vicarious peace of mind, it seems like wandering off in the wilderness.
 
Got my Kiev 4A today from the motherland. All I can say is WOW!!!! I don't know if I will be able to use this one for the project. I am not sure that this one has even seen use. All of the paint and chrome is blemish free. The rangefinder is super and appears to be spot on. I did though run some film through it just to check. So the x-ray has been performed and the film is being processed as we speak. I will head out to pick it up later. I may even get some photos of the Kiev up for you all to drool over.
 
Just a little question: wouldn't it be easier to check exposure consistency with slide film instead of negative film?

I find that negative film is much more tolerant to exposure variations than slide, where under/over exposure of even 1/3 of a stop makes a visible difference.
 
I think it would be, but I hardly shoot slide film. I am usually shooting either Kodak BC400 or Tmax 100. I got my test strips back from the store and everything looks great. The negatives all seem to have the same consistancy and contrast. There are no light leaks or anything with the Kiev. I guess I lucked out and will have to use the '56 vintage 2A for the Kiev Project. This 4A is just way too nice to crack open 'just because' I guess it is back to Ebay to look for another junker!!!
 
yarinkel said:
Just a little question: wouldn't it be easier to check exposure consistency with slide film instead of negative film?

I find that negative film is much more tolerant to exposure variations than slide, where under/over exposure of even 1/3 of a stop makes a visible difference.

If you are very much used to slide film, go ahead.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
TVphotog said:
I got my test strips back from the store and everything looks great. .... This 4A is just way too nice to crack open 'just because' I guess it is back to Ebay to look for another junker!!!

I didn't anticipate this reaction upon the X-Ray Test. But it is perfectly legitimate, and when we perform tests we are to act accordingly !

Cheers,
Ruben
 
I have decided to run the x-ray test on the 2A. I have already completed the first part with the 'good, known' camera, my trusty Nikon F3. I have film loaded into the 2A, now I just have to shoot with it. I will get that done in the next couple of days and report back.
 
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