The last rangefinder.

ChrisN said:
I think that the M9-P will probably be the last of the true rangefinders.
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If by "true rangefinders," you mean cameras that can only be focused by telemeters, then that bridge was crossed a long time ago with the Visoflex. The M240 is no less a "true rangefinder" than an M9-P.

Dante
 
Tom A said:
Well, Cosina Voigtlander still makes flm based rangefinder cameras. They cut out the A version (AE system) but still make R4m/R3M and R2M cameras. I just hope that someone smart comes up with a Full Frame camera, similar to the Fuji X100S with a mechanical viewfinder and minimum buttons and wheels on the back - and full compatibility with M-mount lenses.
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And what's the point of selling film cameras into a flooded (and fast-declining) market where you can get a Leica M4-P for $400 and change (and an old-school M4 is barely above the price of an R2)? The manual CV bodies made sense when film Leicas were actually worth something, but these days, the brass ring is basically free compared to what it used to be.

Dante
 
Cosina & leica will be the last 2 standing. Leica will eventually be sold off I believe. Their high prices & the economy will be their demise.
 
gb hill said:
Cosina & leica will be the last 2 standing. Leica will eventually be sold off I believe. Their high prices & the economy will be their demise.
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One thing I've noticed about economic recessions is the very well heeled seem fairly uneffected and in some ways enjoy their wealth even more! :D
 
gb hill said:
Cosina & leica will be the last 2 standing. Leica will eventually be sold off I believe. Their high prices & the economy will be their demise.
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Depends what you mean by 'the economy' as of course there are very many more than one. There are the booming ones in Asia and the stagnant ones in North America and Europe. Also many micro-economies within those, with successful, growth businesses, and others failing.

Leica prices have always been high, and it does not seem to have held them back too much. As I understand it, the top end Nikon is about the same price as the top end Leica.

If we believe what we read about the difference in wealth between rich and poor ever expanding, then the rich people have even more money now to spend on Leica.

In the UK, while many companies were complaining about the 'difficult economy', and going to the wall, John Lewis, a relatively high end department store, were posting record profits.
 
Besides, there are still a whole lot of bankers looking for ways to spend all that government bail out cash. :D
 
Keith said:
One thing I've noticed about economic recessions is the very well heeled seem fairly uneffected and in some ways enjoy their wealth even more! :D
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This is true, but one reason I cast into the net my 2 cent's is that Leica has never faced such stiff competition from the likes of Fuji, Sony, etc. But then I don't see how the Bently dealership over in High Point NC has survived for so long either.:D
 
thegman said:
Depends what you mean by 'the economy' as of course there are very many more than one. There are the booming ones in Asia and the stagnant ones in North America and Europe. Also many micro-economies within those, with successful, growth businesses, and others failing.

Leica prices have always been high, and it does not seem to have held them back too much. As I understand it, the top end Nikon is about the same price as the top end Leica.

If we believe what we read about the difference in wealth between rich and poor ever expanding, then the rich people have even more money now to spend on Leica.

In the UK, while many companies were complaining about the 'difficult economy', and going to the wall, John Lewis, a relatively high end department store, were posting record profits.
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I see reports on the local news that spending on halloween is down this year by 1 billion $$. Speculators are already predicting the holiday to be a bust. Cost of living, healthcare, food etc. Then there is the smartphone boom.
 
Keith said:
hybrid like the Fujis or will it just go all electronic?
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It may go either way depending on the application. I just hope that non-TTL is not thrown in the trash completely, because non-TTL is how I observe the world I photograph. That means something to me personally. Rangefinder cameras allow both viewing and focusing. The current Fuji approach only allows for viewing. Focusing them is a trust based exercise, and it too easily requires the use of the EVF. The Fuji system already works for many people, and I am hopeful they can improve significantly with a few iterations.

"Electronic non-TTL" is an interesting topic that we haven't seen in the market yet (unless there are some professional video systems or something). The idea would be to allow viewing with a large DoF and angle of view through one lens/sensor (thus not really non-TTL). This could allow some interesting possibilities in focusing as well.

There are anyway people who prefer to work the reduction game in their head, people who prefer WYSIWYG, and people who want to switch between them at ease. The direction is towards forcing everyone to work in the WYSIWYG way (or around it) with Fuji (and I guess Leica M) looking at the switching paradigm.
 
Next, they will place a small video camera instead of the RF prism, activated by a step motor, and giving the secondary image in the VF.
You will have a choice by menu if you want the RF to look like a Leica or a Nikon/Contax.
upgrades in the firmware will introduce de-silvering in the secondary image, and you will have to buy the DAG 2.3.11 patch to solve the problem (cheaper Youxin 12.3 patches will be available).

Progress...yay!!
 
sanmich said:
Next, they will place a small video camera instead of the RF prism, activated by a step motor, and giving the secondary image in the VF.
You will have a choice by menu if you want the RF to look like a Leica or a Nikon/Contax.
upgrades in the firmware will introduce de-silvering in the secondary image, and you will have to buy the DAG 2.3.11 patch to solve the problem (cheaper Youxin 12.3 patches will be available).

Progress...yay!!
Click to expand...


:D :D :D :D
 
Tom A said:
Well, Cosina Voigtlander still makes flm based rangefinder cameras. They cut out the A version (AE system) but still make R4m/R3M and R2M cameras. I just hope that someone smart comes up with a Full Frame camera, similar to the Fuji X100S with a mechanical viewfinder and minimum buttons and wheels on the back - and full compatibility with M-mount lenses.
Click to expand...



Well said. The main appeal of digital Leicas for me was always their un-digital approach. The less buttons, the better.

The rd1 was so close to perfection. But it is getting a bit old in the tooth these days.
 
Pioneer said:
My educated guess is that Leica will continue to build a rangefinder camera with a mechanical rangefinder. It is a major feature, along with their lenses, that really differentiates their product.
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I agree... let's remember Leica is doing well currently... it's not because of AF.
 
Keith said:
It's because of dentists!

(sorry ... the devil made me say that!)

:D
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Hey, even if half true, it found its customer. That's what business is all about... even if we want to think it is to make dream cameras for us non-dentists.
 
sanmich said:
Next, they will place a small video camera instead of the RF prism, activated by a step motor, and giving the secondary image in the VF.
You will have a choice by menu if you want the RF to look like a Leica or a Nikon/Contax.
upgrades in the firmware will introduce de-silvering in the secondary image, and you will have to buy the DAG 2.3.11 patch to solve the problem (cheaper Youxin 12.3 patches will be available).

Progress...yay!!
Click to expand...

Get Ye's patch, Don's takes nine months to download.
 
Pioneer said:
My educated guess is that Leica will continue to build a rangefinder camera with a mechanical rangefinder. It is a major feature, along with their lenses, that really differentiates their product. If they try to compete strictly on the EVF front is not smart for them and if they do go in that direction they will cease to be a camera company. It makes no sense for them to abandon something they arguably do better then anyone else, in favor of something that others are doing far better then they. However, I do believe they will continue to provide digital features in their cameras and the EVF will continue, but not without the optical view/rangefinder. The optical rangefinder is expensive to build but I don't see Leica trying to move away from their luxury market position.
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Don't be so quick to connect "expense" with "luxury", the two aren't connected at the hip. People think they are because this is the Walmart Era, where the ONLY thing to think about is price. If the commercial environment kills Leica it will be because their cameras are digital, not because they have coupled optical RFs. It just costs more to have Leica build something than Canon, et al, and the psychological life span of a digital camera is crap no matter who built it.

Wait for Nikon's new camera, possibly a digital FE2. Returning to past glories because they've run out of ideas to keep people buying. If they build a digital SP or S3, then Leica will sweat. Not because it has an optical RF but because it will be cheaper than Leica can/will build them. It will play out as it plays out. I have an M3 and an MP on order. There are thousands of Leicas on the used market; anyone who wants one will be able to get one. However, if one is addicted to the new well, these will be interesting times.

Cheers,
s-a
 
Dante_Stella said:
And what's the point of selling film cameras into a flooded (and fast-declining) market where you can get a Leica M4-P for $400 and change (and an old-school M4 is barely above the price of an R2)? The manual CV bodies made sense when film Leicas were actually worth something, but these days, the brass ring is basically free compared to what it used to be.

Dante
Click to expand...

Please point me to a working M4-P for $400 and change.

Unless of course you think another $400 is "change".

Come on Dante, give up your secret source!
 
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