Roger Hicks
Veteran
Not all businesses follow the same consumerist model. Nor do they need to.
How do tailor-made suits survive? Or Rolls Royce, Ferrari or Bentley?
Cheers,
R.
Mcary
Well-known
Not to mention independent/no chain restaurants. I mean if all business had to grow or die that would mean that there would only be chain restaurants.
SausalitoDog
Well-known
Roger-
Good examples to prove my point. Ferrari is by Fiat, Rolls by BMW and Bentley by Volkswagen. Bentley has lost a huge amount of money in the last 5 years; another recession would be the end of it. Ferrari has, in fact, stayed pretty close to it's roots and continues to deliver top performance with very cutting edge technology. Rolls has been bankrupt several times and is no longer much of a force in any market.
That's not to say the brands are worthless or will not be around, but they no longer can control their own destiny. They are literally at the mercy of the markets (i.e. The venture capitalists).
This is just the way of life. Things grow, blossom and fade. The Tesla may or may not be the successor to Bentley but someone will be.
In some ways it's a shame, but it's the world we live in.
Sparrow
Veteran
... I know it is difficult to understand some european businesses when viewed through the prism of Anglo-Saxon capitalism ... but in the rest of the world there are still some companies who's vision extend beyond the balance sheet, consumerism and absolute-capotilisam ... and it's looking like Leica could be one of them
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
This is of course why they get some well known shooter to sign an already over priced camera then treble the asking price ... it's not about the money!
Sparrow
Veteran
This is of course why they get some well known shooter to signan already over priced camera then treble the asking price ... it's not about the money!
... yes, that is the flaw in the Leica bit of the argument ... but it doesn't preclude the concept of doing something for the love of it
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Tom,
And they're all still in production, with eager buyers and financial supporters. Your point was?
Cheers,
R.
uhoh7
Veteran
After several years of accumulating LTM and M glass, I finally broke down and bought and M9 about 6 weeks ago.
I'd hoped the A7(r) could do the lenses justice, but Sony decided to top their sensors with a few layers of something or other, and as a result they can't really compete with M9 results. How far behind the Sonys are depends on the lens.
But the A7 convinced me that the M9 was not too big for me. So I found one with a new sensor for 3500.
I do love it.
Someone up there said the only reason to get a Leica was the RF; for me the real reason is results. Sometimes I like the RF, other times I don't.
I would prefer the M9 sensor in a smaller, lighter package with Sony EVF and focus aids, and live view. By a mile.
But I love the results. Far as I can tell the M is only really better over 800 iso, though some may know better. I keep spending silly amounts for little thumb grips and magnifiers and view finders, which do help, but in use it's a bit like a Russian spacecraft.
Never mind. I do not believe any other portable system today can touch the results of Leica's 2009 camera.
Tomorrow?
AF is waste of resources to my mind. Concentrate on making the best of Leica easier to use, carry and buy.
The Leica reputation has never been higher than at this moment, IMHO.
I'd hoped the A7(r) could do the lenses justice, but Sony decided to top their sensors with a few layers of something or other, and as a result they can't really compete with M9 results. How far behind the Sonys are depends on the lens.
But the A7 convinced me that the M9 was not too big for me. So I found one with a new sensor for 3500.
I do love it.
Someone up there said the only reason to get a Leica was the RF; for me the real reason is results. Sometimes I like the RF, other times I don't.
I would prefer the M9 sensor in a smaller, lighter package with Sony EVF and focus aids, and live view. By a mile.
But I love the results. Far as I can tell the M is only really better over 800 iso, though some may know better. I keep spending silly amounts for little thumb grips and magnifiers and view finders, which do help, but in use it's a bit like a Russian spacecraft.
Never mind. I do not believe any other portable system today can touch the results of Leica's 2009 camera.
Tomorrow?
AF is waste of resources to my mind. Concentrate on making the best of Leica easier to use, carry and buy.
The Leica reputation has never been higher than at this moment, IMHO.
Clark.EE
Well-known
Isn't that a Fuji?
Pioneer
Veteran
I can agree with this. I don't shoot a bunch of digital but when I do it is almost always the M9. It produces great results in my opinion.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Depends on what they engrave on it...
And it wasn't made in either the Fuji or the Hasselblad factory.
Cheers,
R.
airfrogusmc
Veteran
GaryLH
Veteran
I own a Hasselbad xpan.. From everything I have read it was done for them by Fuji... This was first someone has ever mention a third party manufacturing site that I can remember..
I know that during that time frame there seemed to be a lot of common component being used on cameras such as Konica rf and Contax G stuff, I had always assumed that there were certain common subcompenents used in the xpan as well.
Gary
GaryLH
Veteran
The only Leica I have ever had a true urge for was the monochrom.. For me as well rf experience not really important, when I first started shooting film, I went from slr to tlr and eventually to Leica CL and other rf cameras mainly for the lens iq and the smaller, lighter carry.
Interesting to hear the Sony in the end did not work out for u. Sounds like a good price for the m9.
Gary
__--
Well-known
That's if your only criterion is edge performance. Yes, the GXR is a great camera, but it simply does not have the color rendition of the M9, not to speak of not providing the full character of some of the Leica lenses because it doesn't have a "full frame" sensor: when I used the GXR I found that I could get somewhat close to the color look that I wanted only by using Raw Photo Processsor (RPP) as the raw developer — and that required a lot of work on each shot. As my eyes see it, none of the other cameras discussed here, including the M240, have the superior and unique aesthetic look and color rendition of M9.
—Mitch/Potomac, MD
Chiang Tung Days
[Direct download link for pdf file for Burma book project]
dct
perpetual amateur
Yes, look at the mechanical command dials layout & some electronic components & solutions, as well as the inner film chamber details or the clasp outside. Kyocera comes to my mind as a possible common component supplier for Hexar, ContaxG & Fuji TX.
KansanTim
Established
Actually, the very existence of the Xpan is a good demonstration that companies don't have to follow the dominant market trends with their products. It was destined to be a niche of a niche from the beginning, but they still saw value in creating it. Such a strategy means that the item will not be a massive hit, but it can be successful by catering to the sort of people who appreciated why it was different. If I wanted to focus on panoramic images, it would be a top priority to purchase even today, and I'm curious enough about it that I would probably try one out if I were wealthier, something I can't say for the various giant DSLRs. To my understanding, the Xpan was reasonably successful (within the confines of the limited expectations its makers would have had to start with), ultimately being discontinued because of EC lead regulations making re-engineering not worth it. Similarly, Leica delivers rangefinders, digital and film, to the people who prefer rangefinders. As long as there is a market of people wanting rangefinders and M-compatibility there, I don't see why Leica would benefit from a "move away from the rangefinder M" following up the 240.
On the comparisons of Leica to other companies and the strategies/success of those companies, be they Apple, Ferrari, or whatever, it's dangerous to put too much weight on any oversimplified narrative. There is a lot of research out there about changing/emerging markets and the best strategies to employ, and it's pretty clear that there aren't really generally applicable rules. The right move in one circumstance can be precisely the wrong one in another. Focusing on core business can be a good move, as can innovation that cannibalizes core business. It's not that drawing a parallel isn't appropriate, but one should keep in mind that companies and markets have details that make them distinct to go with those details that make them similar to others.
On the comparisons of Leica to other companies and the strategies/success of those companies, be they Apple, Ferrari, or whatever, it's dangerous to put too much weight on any oversimplified narrative. There is a lot of research out there about changing/emerging markets and the best strategies to employ, and it's pretty clear that there aren't really generally applicable rules. The right move in one circumstance can be precisely the wrong one in another. Focusing on core business can be a good move, as can innovation that cannibalizes core business. It's not that drawing a parallel isn't appropriate, but one should keep in mind that companies and markets have details that make them distinct to go with those details that make them similar to others.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Highlight 1: That's what the manufacturer told me. The Horseman stereo disappeared at the same time...
Highlight 2: That was my point. Pretending that (for example) the iPhone/iPad model will invariably be the best bet for another product is downright feeble-minded.
Cheers,
R.
.
uhoh7
Veteran
TY Gary,
I have an A7: it's my M9 backup, and I also use it for close up and tele stuff. Very nice camera.
I think pretty soon we will see them used for around 1200, and they are well worth it.
The R needs native glass to really shine.
Anyway as I was testing the A7s I had some benchmark M9 shots--one by Carsten here was very useful---and I had to give in to "my lying eyes" LOL
DSC06189 by unoh7, on Flickr