Misunderstood? Huh? Not on RFF at least.
daveleo
what?
I would *love* to own one, but as mentioned above, the pricing doesn't make any sense to me.
The closest I will ever get is when Fujifilm offers a monochrome APS X-something, sim to the X100.
The closest I will ever get is when Fujifilm offers a monochrome APS X-something, sim to the X100.
bobbyrab
Well-known
Pure conjecture on my part here, but I suspect that Leica, not knowing if there was a market for such a camera decided to attach a premium price as if it were a limited edition.
I suspect that had it been more reasonably priced it would have sold in considerable numbers. Unfortunately Leica as a policy don't seem to do price adjustment, which is a shame, maybe in it's next incarnation.
I suspect that had it been more reasonably priced it would have sold in considerable numbers. Unfortunately Leica as a policy don't seem to do price adjustment, which is a shame, maybe in it's next incarnation.
Leica cannot compete on volume.
bobbyrab
Well-known
No I meant M8 M9, numbers.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
jippiejee
Well-known
Maybe they should have hired you then for this project. Based on an interview with Kaufmann:
"The black and white project devoured tens of millions of euros and tied one and a half years, a large part of the development team - a daring undertaking for the small company."
and:
"Kaufmann had hoped to 3500 units per year to sell, in fact there are about three times as many."
source
So tens of millions in R&D, while expecting to sell only 10 pieces a day explains a lot about the final price of the MM.
Michael Markey
Veteran
I`m beginning to like what I see from the Monochrome.
At first the pictures were far to graphic for my taste but now they seem to be a more nuanced.
At first the pictures were far to graphic for my taste but now they seem to be a more nuanced.
leafster
Established
I'd like to have one but too expensive. Having already own an M9P, I couldn't get the MM. Unfortunately Leica don't take in M9 upgrade for MM, otherwise I don't mind paying some fees to get MM.
MCTuomey
Veteran
Probably have seen this review - captures the monochrom complex well, I think:
http://www.ultrasomething.com/photography/2012/12/a-fetishists-guide-to-the-monochrom-part1/
as others have said, the only objection to this camera i've seen mentioned is cost.
http://www.ultrasomething.com/photography/2012/12/a-fetishists-guide-to-the-monochrom-part1/
as others have said, the only objection to this camera i've seen mentioned is cost.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Is that so? I guess that Phsase One is a profiteering company then
The IQ 260 Achromatic costs 10.000 $ more than the colour IQ 260…
Small series special development cameras simply cost more to produce.
As it is the premium Leica charges is quite modest, I suspect the margin on the Monochrom is more narrow than on the M or ME.
YYV_146
Well-known
I can't get my mind around the math here... let's say they threw in Euro 20 million, that's about 27 million USD of pure R&D. Now they expect to sell 3500 units a year at $8,000, which is about $28 million in sales worldwide. The saleable life of a digital camera is about 3-4 years, and Leica is no exception. This means Leica will only generate about $100 million in revenue over the entire project. Considering how much it costs to build, distribute and service these cameras, and the high cost of small sensor batches, I would be surprise that any company would be willing to take such a project...
They might well be talking about a whole B&W division budget, which also includes investment for future Monochrome bodies as well as potential alternative designs. That makes slightly more sense, but I seriously doubt even such an undertaking would require so much money. The MM is, after all, an M9 with a bayer-less sensor. Also, it's no secret that companies try to boast about their R&D spending. Apple recruiting guys will frequently say how much they spend on R&D, but in reality Apple spends far, far less on R&D than Samsung or Cisco.
...Not that I intend to fault Leica for making the camera. It's a great tool and they have every right to be proud of it.
NazgulKing
Established
What? Sensor size scales with costs exponentially, and a low production part scales up even more? As it is, a medium format sensor will have a higher rejection rate than a 35mm sensor.Is that so? I guess that Phsase One is a profiteering company then
The IQ 260 Achromatic costs 10.000 $ more than the colour IQ 260…
Small series special development cameras simply cost more to produce.
As it is the premium Leica charges is quite modest, I suspect the margin on the Monochrom is more narrow than on the M or ME.
Heck, even CMOSIS has sensors with options for a Bayer filter array or no Bayer filter array. Take a look at this webpage: http://www.cmosis.com/products/standard_products/cmv12000
Same Sensor, but options for color and mono. Honestly, I think Leica is just giving a sorry excuse for even spending so much money on research for a "monochrome" sensor when that same sensor is likely to be available in color and mono. Either that, or pure incompetence.
YYV_146
Well-known
All Leica needs is a pencil...
http://petapixel.com/2013/08/04/scr...ayer-off-a-dslr-sensor-for-sharper-bw-photos/ Not for the faint hearted, though
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
If I can justify the price, I'd buy this camera in a heartbeat.
It's the only unique digital camera that I'd love to shoot with.
It's the only unique digital camera that I'd love to shoot with.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Ok. I understand. Both Leica and Phase One are incompetents ripping the public off….
Thank you for your insight.
Monochrom
Well-known
the monochrom is an ambitious move from leica...and i want one awwwwww........but i cannot complain about my m9....awwwww
I saw that misunderstood leica "review"....i can´t understand what´s the point of going over and over again on the matter of buying X, Y, Z gear for the high price of leica...or who cares about someone considering the monochrom pure excess...
....but i cannot complain about my m9....awwwwwI saw that misunderstood leica "review"....i can´t understand what´s the point of going over and over again on the matter of buying X, Y, Z gear for the high price of leica...or who cares about someone considering the monochrom pure excess...
airfrogusmc
Veteran
There was a long waiting list until just a couple of months ago. I waited 6 months for mine. I think it has sold well for a Leica. Maybe not in the M 240 or M9 numbers but I'm glad Leica is not the one size fits all company. We already have a lot of those out there. It is a great camera and it's great Leica had the balls to make a camera like this. Some of my own words and images over at Steve Huff from back in Oct.
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2013/10/22/almost-a-year-with-the-leica-monochrom-by-alan-bourgeois/
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2013/10/22/almost-a-year-with-the-leica-monochrom-by-alan-bourgeois/
Some great ones in there! Particularly the 2nd and 4th image.
airfrogusmc
Veteran
Thank you.