The Misunderstood Leica Monochrom

Pure conjecture on my part here, but I suspect that Leica, not knowing if there was a market for such a camera decided to attach a premium price as if it were a limited edition.
I suspect that had it been more reasonably priced it would have sold in considerable numbers. Unfortunately Leica as a policy don't seem to do price adjustment, which is a shame, maybe in it's next incarnation.
 
YYV_146 said:
I actually can't see too much being spent on developing the MM...Leica just removed the bayer and IR filter and put a piece of optical glass there instead, right?
Click to expand...


Maybe they should have hired you then for this project. Based on an interview with Kaufmann:

"The black and white project devoured tens of millions of euros and tied one and a half years, a large part of the development team - a daring undertaking for the small company."

and:

"Kaufmann had hoped to 3500 units per year to sell, in fact there are about three times as many."

source

So tens of millions in R&D, while expecting to sell only 10 pieces a day explains a lot about the final price of the MM.
 
I`m beginning to like what I see from the Monochrome.
At first the pictures were far to graphic for my taste but now they seem to be a more nuanced.
 
I'd like to have one but too expensive. Having already own an M9P, I couldn't get the MM. Unfortunately Leica don't take in M9 upgrade for MM, otherwise I don't mind paying some fees to get MM.
 
NazgulKing said:
The point is that monochrome cameras are inherently simpler to develop and operate. The color interpolation algorithm is what complicates the bulk of camera processing and a major source of image artifacts such as moire. Developing a sensor that does not need color is a no-brainer. I'm not even sure what Leica's issues were when it came to developing a monochrome camera. Sensor manufacturing costs are even lower with one less layer to overlay on the sensor. The only possible reason why the camera is so expensive is probably because Leica ordered a much smaller batch of sensors and thus driving up the price by a few times.
Click to expand...
Is that so? I guess that Phsase One is a profiteering company then🙄
The IQ 260 Achromatic costs 10.000 $ more than the colour IQ 260…

Small series special development cameras simply cost more to produce.
As it is the premium Leica charges is quite modest, I suspect the margin on the Monochrom is more narrow than on the M or ME.
 
jippiejee said:
Maybe they should have hired you then for this project. Based on an interview with Kaufmann:

"The black and white project devoured tens of millions of euros and tied one and a half years, a large part of the development team - a daring undertaking for the small company."

and:

"Kaufmann had hoped to 3500 units per year to sell, in fact there are about three times as many."

source

So tens of millions in R&D, while expecting to sell only 10 pieces a day explains a lot about the final price of the MM.
Click to expand...

I can't get my mind around the math here... let's say they threw in Euro 20 million, that's about 27 million USD of pure R&D. Now they expect to sell 3500 units a year at $8,000, which is about $28 million in sales worldwide. The saleable life of a digital camera is about 3-4 years, and Leica is no exception. This means Leica will only generate about $100 million in revenue over the entire project. Considering how much it costs to build, distribute and service these cameras, and the high cost of small sensor batches, I would be surprise that any company would be willing to take such a project...

They might well be talking about a whole B&W division budget, which also includes investment for future Monochrome bodies as well as potential alternative designs. That makes slightly more sense, but I seriously doubt even such an undertaking would require so much money. The MM is, after all, an M9 with a bayer-less sensor. Also, it's no secret that companies try to boast about their R&D spending. Apple recruiting guys will frequently say how much they spend on R&D, but in reality Apple spends far, far less on R&D than Samsung or Cisco.


...Not that I intend to fault Leica for making the camera. It's a great tool and they have every right to be proud of it.
 
jaapv said:
Is that so? I guess that Phsase One is a profiteering company then🙄
The IQ 260 Achromatic costs 10.000 $ more than the colour IQ 260…

Small series special development cameras simply cost more to produce.
As it is the premium Leica charges is quite modest, I suspect the margin on the Monochrom is more narrow than on the M or ME.
Click to expand...
What? Sensor size scales with costs exponentially, and a low production part scales up even more? As it is, a medium format sensor will have a higher rejection rate than a 35mm sensor.

Heck, even CMOSIS has sensors with options for a Bayer filter array or no Bayer filter array. Take a look at this webpage: http://www.cmosis.com/products/standard_products/cmv12000

Same Sensor, but options for color and mono. Honestly, I think Leica is just giving a sorry excuse for even spending so much money on research for a "monochrome" sensor when that same sensor is likely to be available in color and mono. Either that, or pure incompetence.
 
NazgulKing said:
What? Sensor size scales with costs exponentially, and a low production part scales up even more? As it is, a medium format sensor will have a higher rejection rate than a 35mm sensor.

Heck, even CMOSIS has sensors with options for a Bayer filter array or no Bayer filter array. Take a look at this webpage: http://www.cmosis.com/products/standard_products/cmv12000

Same Sensor, but options for color and mono. Honestly, I think Leica is just giving a sorry excuse for even spending so much money on research for a "monochrome" sensor when that same sensor is likely to be available in color and mono. Either that, or pure incompetence.
Click to expand...

All Leica needs is a pencil...

http://petapixel.com/2013/08/04/scr...ayer-off-a-dslr-sensor-for-sharper-bw-photos/ Not for the faint hearted, though 😀
 
If I can justify the price, I'd buy this camera in a heartbeat.
It's the only unique digital camera that I'd love to shoot with.
 
NazgulKing said:
What? Sensor size scales with costs exponentially, and a low production part scales up even more? As it is, a medium format sensor will have a higher rejection rate than a 35mm sensor.

Heck, even CMOSIS has sensors with options for a Bayer filter array or no Bayer filter array. Take a look at this webpage: http://www.cmosis.com/products/standard_products/cmv12000

Same Sensor, but options for color and mono. Honestly, I think Leica is just giving a sorry excuse for even spending so much money on research for a "monochrome" sensor when that same sensor is likely to be available in color and mono. Either that, or pure incompetence.
Click to expand...
Ok. I understand. Both Leica and Phase One are incompetents ripping the public off….🙄 Thank you for your insight.
 
the monochrom is an ambitious move from leica...and i want one awwwwww....😛....but i cannot complain about my m9....awwwww


I saw that misunderstood leica "review"....i can´t understand what´s the point of going over and over again on the matter of buying X, Y, Z gear for the high price of leica...or who cares about someone considering the monochrom pure excess...
 
There was a long waiting list until just a couple of months ago. I waited 6 months for mine. I think it has sold well for a Leica. Maybe not in the M 240 or M9 numbers but I'm glad Leica is not the one size fits all company. We already have a lot of those out there. It is a great camera and it's great Leica had the balls to make a camera like this. Some of my own words and images over at Steve Huff from back in Oct.
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2013/10/22/almost-a-year-with-the-leica-monochrom-by-alan-bourgeois/
 
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