the new digilux-2 is here and is a REFLEX!

[sychan]

Why this camera is cool

Why this camera is cool

Why would anyone get this SLR? Other than the Live Preview feature?? and somewhat lower cost? Are you guys really being fooled into this package simply because of the leica logo on the lens?

I'm quite satisfied with my D200 and collection of AI/AIS nikkors (and the random ultron 40/2), but I'll tell you why I think this camera is cool:

1) No prism hump and short lens register. That big old mirror box and prism are the only things that make my FM3A bulkier than a hexar, m3 or bessa. This Panny ain't got one, so it is smaller.

2) The Leica badged lens is image stabilized AND if you use live preview, there's no mirror slap. So its only f2.8 or f3.5 wide open, but you can probably get sharp pictures down to 1/8 sec (assuming people don't move!). Wish it had a tilting LCD though - a nice zoom, tilting LCD and a image stabilization are great for getting stealthy candids. You get the benefits of through the lens viewing/framing (handy when shooting anything longer than a 85/f2), and no mirror slap. Have your SLR cake, and EAT IT TOO. In any case, even if you don't have the image stabilization, you can get the RF benefits of no clunky mirror, without getting the big old Sony R1, or the expensive R-D1.

3) You can do mad, mad LENS HACKS like modifying a Hexanon 40/1.8 to fit the mount for it, and get a teeny, tiny kit. You can pretty much mount whatever you like on it as far as SLR lenses (Summi(cron|lux) R lenses are way cheaper than the M lenses) if you're willing to manually stop down the lens.

4) The market needs more players who are willing to innovate. I appreciate that Olympus is trying out different designs, rather than just grinding out "me too" cameras. Canon and Nikon are fierce competitors, but very conventional. Its the consumer electronics companies like Panny and Sony that are pushing the design envelope to differentiate themselves.

Personally, I would say, ditch the mirror box entirely and go full time EVF and tilt/swivel LCD, but do a GOOD LCD/EVF.

 

[jaapv]

In retrospect, I think Leica management followed a very clever strategy. They were confronted with a new technolgy that would greatly reduce if not kill off their market. What were the options? Scale down and become a cottage industry and eventuallyl die? Suicidally enter the technological warzone and be crushed by the giants in the upgrade race? Sell out to the highest bidder and lose their heritage? As a matter of fact they took a risky but, now it seems, succesful alternative.They decided not to enter the rat-race but to wait until technology enabled them to express their philosophy digitally and tide the company over by exploiting their strenghts: optical design and binoculars. They entered the profitable luxury market with the a la carte, and kept the lower end alive through cooperation with Kyocera and Panasonic.They intoduced the very succesful Digilux2 as a stopgap camera until they were able to build the digital M. And now they enter the field that was abandoned by the Japanese, notably Olympus, the compact high-end SLR with the Digilux 3. And steered the company through the rapids of technological change instead of killing it.The company is out of the red, sales are up by double figure pecentages because of the DMR and the photographic world is highly exited about their coming products. Not too bad I would think....

 

[Socke]

Jaap, up to now there is a Panasonic camera introduced. Designed around Olympus components with a lens mount which once was made for Kodak sensors. We have to wait for test results since it may or may not be the sensor in the Olympus E330 and the input from that sensor is processed by a proprietary Panasonic engine. It may be better at moderately high ISOs than the E330 but we have no prrof, yet.

It may be rebadged Leica Digilux 3 in the future, but it is certainly no Leica design.

 

[jaapv]

I'm sure it is directly connected with the recent continuation of the Leica/Panasonic cooperation in the development of photographic camera's. I'm confident it is a Leica design built by Panasonic.

 

[Trius]

Aizan: I'm sure it shoots RAW; all the E series do.

And I agree with you, jaapv, though I don't think you meant Olympus had abandonded the prosumer market. The E-300 and E-500 have been selling quite well.

Socke: Not sure I understand your comment " a lens mount which once was made for Kodak sensors." AFAIK, the 4/3 mount was original with Olympus designed a sensor format that can be from anyone. Kodak just happened to be the manufacturer of the first 4/3 sensor, in the E-1.

The 4/3 sensor noise issue is, IMO overblown. No, it's not going to be as smooth as larger sensors, but except for sports photography, I don't think it matters that much in real life. I've seen high ISO shots that were quite pleasing, and what noise there is much more filmlike, i.e. more like grain than diginoise. Beyond that the colour, contrast and dynamic range performance in the Oly bodies have been pretty good. We'll see what the Pansonic does.

sychan: I missed that the Leica 4/3 lens is stabilised. Way cool! Now I'm getting excited!

 

[jaapv]

No, I didn't mean that, Trius. I meant the Olympus Pen line and to a certain extent, the OM series. Just imagine a digital Olympus Pen camera. :angel:

 

[wyk_penguin]

Good things:
Nice lens and body. Esp. the shutter speed dial which is much like that on the Voigtlanders.
I wonder if Leica is going to cough out more D series lenses?

Bad things:
1. Panasonic sensors are noisy. (at least their CCDs are.)
2. The mirror system is reputedly bad.
3. Users are stuck with one lens. Unless Leica makes more of them, you've just gonna stick with the standard zoom. (You could use other 4/3 lenses, but the aperture ring is just a must!!! ALso, I think Leica wants to make their Rs exclusive, rather than going everywhere and basterdizing their 'suprerior' R series.)
4. The body is still too big. (Who needs so much? White balance, shutter, iso, aperture, focus and that's all; to be fair, AF and metering modes. Other functions are gadgets, all of them.... useless gadgets...)
5. I want that rangefinder!!!!!

 

[jaapv]

I want that digital M too 🙂 But the size of the body- It cannot be too small, or it won't fit your hands. I have fairly large hands. The Canon 20/30 D with a long lens?-like holding a wobbly matchbox! 😡 And Leica needs a more compact DSLR under the DMR but it canot be a direct competitor to Canon or Nikon, it must distinguish itself. If this is the camera is doubtful, however.

 

[fgianni]

It would be nice to know the size and weight of this camera and how it does compare with the current crop of entry level DSLRs

 

[mountainrivera]

I am sure we will have to take out a 30 year mortgage to prurchase.

 

[jaapv]

I am sure we will have to take out a 30 year mortgage to prurchase.

Looking at your list of gear I feel it cannot be that bad.....

 

[mountainrivera]

Looking at your list of gear I feel it cannot be that bad.....

I don't own any of it. Just trying it out for a while 🙂

 

[sychan]

Bad things:
1. Panasonic sensors are noisy. (at least their CCDs are.)
2. The mirror system is reputedly bad.
3. Users are stuck with one lens. Unless Leica makes more of them, you've just gonna stick with the standard zoom. (You could use other 4/3 lenses, but the aperture ring is just a must!!! ALso, I think Leica wants to make their Rs exclusive, rather than going everywhere and basterdizing their 'suprerior' R series.)
4. The body is still too big. (Who needs so much? White balance, shutter, iso, aperture, focus and that's all; to be fair, AF and metering modes. Other functions are gadgets, all of them.... useless gadgets...)
5. I want that rangefinder!!!!!

1. Panasonic sensors have been noisy because they're SMALL (in order to get that massive zoom range, I guess). This sensor is not their typical sensor and the Olympus E330 - which DOES use the same sensor was observed to have much better noise characteristics than the previous generation of 4/3 lenses
2. Don't know about that one - the VW has been called dim, but the live view would solve that
3. It uses the 4/3 system lenses - you get the Olympus lenses, the new Sigma lenses and any old lenses via adapters, as well as the Leica badged lens (I doubt that Leica actually manufactures it).
4. Dunno haven't seen it for real
5. Epson R-D1

 

[gustav[] pEña]

The good thin about having the viewfinder on the left is the posibiity to shoot with both eyes open. Does anyone know what Focal length is requier to do so? 43mm? 50mm?

 

[HansDerHase]

Watching the Video here it looks like it wont feel well balanced in my hand or around my neck. The body is a bit to small, the lens way too big.

But then.. fitted with a small manual prime it may evoke some gear lust in me. It seems that this little beauty may not feel like a SLR (what is a GOOD!).

 

[hth]

I might sound a bit negative, but while the viewfinder is in the correct place, it has traditional controls and non-SLR form factor, it is still an SLR. Which means I will not get anywhere near the manual focus control I have in an RF, small and low weight (WA) lenses and the relaxed feeling that I get when using an RF.

Anyway, a good step in the right direction, but not close enough for me.

Though I cannot understand why all these 4/3 lenses have to be so big and heavy. Should not the small sensor allow for small lenses?

/Håkan

 

[Trius]

Hakan: You are quite right. This whole threaded started out because of the Leica connection. I'm not sure why the lenses are so large. There's a knowledgeable person over on DPreview who may have some opinions; I'll ask.

 

[jaapv]

And this is what Leica has to say:

Leica Camera AG and Panasonic are pleased to announce the development of a new interchangeable lens based on the Four Thirds standard. Featuring a focal length from 14mm to 50mm　(35mm equivalent: 28mm to 100mm), the new LEICA D VARIO-ELMARIT 14-50mm/F2.8-3.5 ASPH. lens is the first interchangeable lens from Leica developed exclusively for digital SLR cameras. The “D” signifies that it is designed for the new digital system.

The partnership between Leica and Panasonic has resulted in rigorous quality standards for the development and manufacturing of this interchangeable lens, so that the technology and expertise of Leica Camera and Panasonic will be integrated at their highest levels. Both Panasonic and Leica Camera AG are confident that the results of their cooperative efforts will be successful and highly evaluated by customers.

The LEICA D VARIO-ELMARIT lens comprises 16 elements in 12 groups, including two aspherical lenses. It provides high definition image rendering that conveys even the finest details and nuances. It minimizes distortion and peripheral vignetting at the wide end. And to draw the best optical performance out of this compact lens, a large-diameter aspherical glass molded lens is also incorporated. With the LEICA D VARIO-ELMARIT, users can now experience the unique performance of Leica optical technology in the world of digital photography.

For use in Panasonic's LUMIX cameras, the LEICA D VARIO-ELMARIT 14-50mm/F2.8-3.5 ASPH. lens incorporates MEGA O.I.S. Developed entirely by Panasonic, this advanced optical image stabilization system makes it possible – without using a tripod – to capture clear, beautiful images even in macro shooting or low-lit situations, giving users more shooting flexibility. And to assure precise control over the MEGA O.I.S., the Venus Engine is integrated into the lens unit. Together with the full-time Live View function, these two important features make the DMC-L1 (also being introduced) a digital SLR camera that offers an entirely new kind of photographic experience.
To improve operating ease, there is an aperture ring in addition to the focus ring and zoom ring, giving users more intuitive aperture adjustment. Another distinctive L1 feature is the shutter speed dial on the camera body. Thanks to features like these, the L1 offers a more comfortable and enjoyable shooting experience than conventional digital SLR cameras.
The LEICA D VARIO-ELMARIT 14-50mm/F2.8-3.5 ASPH is not simply a standard interchangeable lens for digital SLR cameras, but rather an exclusive one with features such as MEGA O.I.S. and an aperture ring.

 

[photogdave]

photogdave: Olympus makes some very good wide lenses for the 4/3s bodies, while others have problems with wide lenses. I don't understand your concern. Not cheap, but the 7-14 is repudtedly quite nice.

vincent: we're thinking a 4/3 sensor will be in an RF any day now...

Sorry to respond so late Trius!
If this hasn't been addressed already, you seem to be confusing aspect ratio and focal length. I was saying I like the wider aspect ratio of 35mm and full-frame sensors. It's like the difference between the normal TV viewing format and widescreen cinema. You can shoot with a wide angle lens or telephoto etc. in either but no matter the field of view, I like the frame to look more rectangular then square. That's why I'm not a big fan of the 4/3 format!
Cheers!

 

[aizan]

i absolutely lurve the more squarish aspect ratio. it's like 6x7 or 4x5, and most paintings, it seems to me. but then again, i luv 3:2, also...so many things, not enough time...