N
Nick R.
Guest
Jorge Torralba said:
Prolly because they know a tempest in a teapot when they see one.
The new rudeness at RFF...
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Prolly because they know a tempest in a teapot when they see one.
W
wtl
Guest
Jorge Torralba said:
if takes leica this long to develop a digital camera, it will probably take leica sometime to notice the photo...can't be sure yet they don't mind.
finder - all good points, but you forgot that, for gossipers, no gossiping is immoral.
now, wtf am i doing here?
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
rvaubel said:
OK...now you've gone too far! Let's be realistic here, and not get carried away.
.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Jorge Torralba said:
I cannot imagine them being too displeased; publicity is publicity after all especially if it is free and they DO want to sell camera's.
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
I'll resurrect this discussion in a year so you can see how extremely silly it seems. Advertising leaks have a function after all... to advertise for free. Whether it's from Leica or not, it's free advertising. And if the pics turn out to be fraudulent... well, what's the point anyway?
Bobbo
Well-known
SolaresLarrave said:
Exactly. Why do you think Canon cameras "leak" every friggin time they release a new camera? It's free advertising, which can do nothing but good for a company which has been going down the tubes since the early 1960's. The more I think about it, the more I would like a Leica, but the new stuff is too expensive, and I feel the prices are too inflated for the value of the actual product (a lower advertising bill could help that some, though).
As for the corporate "ethics" discussions, well, I hate to tell you, but show me a Fortune 500 company that cares more about ethics than making a quick buck. I fail to see how companies like Apple or Dell who are too cheap to make quality products instead of cheap pieces of plastic sh*t that break after 18 months or to hire anyone other than children and illiterate women in Indonesia and China to put it together have ethics. Don't get me started on tobacco companies, either, or the company that dumped all the waste in Love Canal, N.Y., or the company who built the Austin Dam in Pennsylvania which collapsed and killed 56 people in 1913 (an old example, but the more things change...)
[Insert rant on corporate responsibility and tax breaks here. Include suggestions for increased regulation of corporations b/c I'm too tired and lazy to write one, plus it wouldn't be that overly relevant, anyway]
As for rvaubel, you have issues, my friend. At least give us a nice rear end to examine, like Elizabeth Taylor in Cleopatra or Carrie Fisher in Return of the Jedi or something with at least a smattering of talent for something other than leaving dogs at her grandmothers and claiming it was kidnapped
.
R
ruben
Guest
J. Borger said:
Dear friend,
I cannot speak on behalf of Jorge concerning his feelings about his carpet. So far as my experience goes he has SHOWN great tolerance and human tact in many different situations.
But I can speak on my own behalf and tell you than in my own opinion there is no issue that propperly and courteously rised is to be outlawed, nor criticism of Jorge himself - provided you are not acting within a malicious coalition, or clique. And I have no reason to view your related critics as of doubitable character.
I do defend Jorge NOW and within THIS issue because as I see it, it goes hand in hand with defending our Forum, yours and mine. What's the issue with giving publicity within the Forum about any manufacturer "secret" ? Believe me I cannot understand. As I said already in this thread, Jorge is the Big Cheese of the RFF, not of Leitz enterprises.
Why are you defending Leitz enterprises instead of the curiosity of RFF members ?
And on what grounds you make the parallel with paparazzi style, from the point of view of a RFF member ? - Truly I do not understand you.
If you could provide the propper explanation to these questions, in my own opinion you will trascend the stage of labeling.
Nevertheless, whatever you choose to do, I remind myself we both may find ourselves at another thread in the same side of the barricade.
Cheers,
Ruben
rvaubel
Well-known
Bobbo said:As for rvaubel, you have issues, my friend. At least give us a nice rear end to examine, like Elizabeth Taylor in Cleopatra or Carrie Fisher in Return of the Jedi or something with at least a smattering of talent for something other than leaving dogs at her grandmothers and claiming it was kidnapped
I must truly apologize. To even think of comparing Paris Hilton's rear to the rear lCD screen of a Leica, is, indeed an unintentional insult to Leica which I ask profound forgiveness. What was I thinking?
Rex
rool
Well-known
Those M8 pics are an endless source of entertainment, that's what I'm sure of!
S
Socke
Guest
rvaubel said:
J.Lo on the other hand ...
FrankS
Registered User
Socke said:
I appreciate the larger screen to see the image clearly.
back alley
IMAGES
Socke said:
wars have been fought for less...
R
ruben
Guest
Finder said:
Dear Finder,
Now we are approaching the basics. But first let me clearly support your right to discuss your point as long as you wish.
I asked, and you ignored, why are you defending the point of view of Leica enterprises instead of that of the RFF.
With the abovequoted sentence of your own. you have moved a further bit in clarifying the issue. You do support Bussiness Secrecy against Freedom of the Press.
I support Freedom of the Press AGAINST Bussiness Secrecy.
Why? For several reasons, including ethical values, human survival, and the democratic education I happened to get in my beloved Argentina. Thus I support full transparency, FULL accountability, FULLY opened books, FULL rights to investigate, expose, criticize, uncover.
Why, because I wish my local authorities one day will uncover the giant and unlawful evadition of taxes the company for which I work performs (while I, like any other simple worker have to pay in full), plus the giant ecological damage my company performs every day, plus the giant abuse of the workers rights. I want my company to be exposed, all companies to be exposed, and maximum transparency let to be.
Of course the owners of my company will allways argue that the day the IRS falls upon them the first to suffer wil be us, the simple workers. The argument is untrue, since on the basis of cheating the owners of my company have accumulated great personal fortunes, from which to pay the punnishment. But even if it was true, I am not just a player of my Bosses' team. I am also a citizen concerned with the well being of all other citizens. Their right to equality before the law, their right to respire clean air, to drink clean water, to work under human conditions. For all these we need full freedom of the press.
Is this Communism ? No, just democratic fair play. Do you support fair play ? If so then Freedom of the Press is a precondition.
Jorge Torralba has fully complyied with the principles of Freedom of the Press, on behalf of the best interests of the RFF. As a camera consumer and RFF member I do have a vital interest in knowing IN ADVANCE, REGARDLESS OF LEICA BUSSINESS interest, about the emergence of a new Leica, and what features it will have. It will affect directly MY decisions concerning what I buy today, and MY evaluation about what impact it will have on the market I deal with.
Furthermore, in sharp contrast to those magazine bad smelling camera reviewers, by publishing those pics Jorge has shown a quite rare journalistic independence, for which he is to be praised and appreciated - not censored.
Cheers,
Ruben
Last edited by a moderator:
sf
Veteran
Jorge Torralba said:
benefits of having your new product in the press (in images and reviews) long before its official release :
1. Build a drooling market. This is just like the smell of dinner before it's served. It gets the mouth to watering.
2. Watch how the market reacts to the images and comments - use this to devise a more accurate marketing strategy.
3. Watch for ideas on peripheral products such as cases, lenses, finders, whatever.
4. Understand the most interested markets - know where your best bets will be come release time.
Such leaks only serve to bolster the market readiness. They set the market up for buy-mode long before it would have been otherwise. This ensures that people will have done a great deal of thinking and talking before the release date and that they are likely to be in buyitnow mode sooner.
There are ZERO negative effects to early leaks of accurate inside information of the marketing variety. What you DON'T want are shots of failed prototypes or other innacurate pieces of information that might set a potential market on a less than positive path. You don't want people posting false images and reviews that might sway potential buyers into the arms of a competitor.
Once you have your product ready to go to market (at least to be photographed), you should make every effort to get word out ASAP - this just helps keep your customers on the line.
sherm
Well-known
Shutterflower,
Out of pure curiostiy what is your profession? You write as though this was your work... advertising and marketing?
Simple curiosity nothing implied
Reason being you have some very interesting insight into what Solms may be trying to achieve.......
Sherm
Out of pure curiostiy what is your profession? You write as though this was your work... advertising and marketing?
Simple curiosity nothing implied
Reason being you have some very interesting insight into what Solms may be trying to achieve.......
Sherm
irees
Member
I find this amusing. In Finder's world, Leica could leak all it wanted, but no one would publish it out of "respect" for the company.
sf
Veteran
sherm said:Shutterflower,
Out of pure curiostiy what is your profession? You write as though this was your work... advertising and marketing?
Simple curiosity nothing implied
Reason being you have some very interesting insight into what Solms may be trying to achieve.......
Sherm
yeah, I'm in marketing/Advertising with a very ethereal company called Young & Rubicam Brands. Under WPP. An intern only, but I find this stuff very interesting.
sherm
Well-known
O'kay that explains it....
Great compnay BTW
Great compnay BTW
J. Borger
Well-known
Ruben,ruben said:
I am not defending Leitz .. and it is not just about the picture.
It started earlier with RFF spreading RUMOURS about needing the lens codes to bring up the framelines .. these rumours where withdrawn later.
These rumours were spread combined with plans to offer lenscoding as a "service".
Then all the speculations about M8 features... running over to Pnet & Leica-forum to cross-post all these rumours ... and then withdraw them.
OK .. i can understand RFF needs subscribers to run this site ........ and/or needs lots of visitors to attract advertisers and sponsors ---and/or needs other means to finance this site ...... i all understand that.
BUT if somebody has to withdraw RUMOURS several times or they turn out false i can not take him serious anymore as a newsprovider.
He becomes a Paparazzi ...
For the picture .... i do not care if they are real or fake ... it looks like the M7 .. and Leica stated several times the M8 will look similar .. so what is new here???
Do i need to be surprised it has some additional buttons on the back and an LCD -screen??
(For good order: i am the first in line to buy the M8 .. no matter if the picture is real)
I hope this clarifies my point ........
I just answered this because this thread is called "new rudeness at RFF". Does this mean members have to agree with every action of the hoster or moderators or otherwise they are rude? Sure hope not.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
J. Borger said:
I shouldn't be too negative about paparazzi in this forum
After all, the original Paparazzo in Fellini's La Dolce Vita used a Leica MP exclusively, from time to time with Leicavit, as I recall. He might have been a member here...