Ken Ford
Refuses to suffer fools
I've noticed a new tone of disrespect from several members towards our host recently, and it's really starting to annoy me.
Insulting Jorge in RFF threads for perceived issues regarding the legitimacy of the M8 pics is tacky. It's rather like being invited to dinner, then pissing on the carpet in the corner and then groping the host's wife. Like I said, tacky.
If you agree the M8 pics are legit, fine. If you think they're not, that's OK too. But don't you dare question Jorge's ethics or honesty in his own house. Take it somewhere else.
Insulting Jorge in RFF threads for perceived issues regarding the legitimacy of the M8 pics is tacky. It's rather like being invited to dinner, then pissing on the carpet in the corner and then groping the host's wife. Like I said, tacky.
If you agree the M8 pics are legit, fine. If you think they're not, that's OK too. But don't you dare question Jorge's ethics or honesty in his own house. Take it somewhere else.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Hear hear. Now, please pass the potatoes...
triplefinger
Well-known
Well said.
flashover
John K
I haven't been reading the M8 thread as it dosen't realy intrest me. Never the less that type of behaviour in any thread is just plain tacky.
jano
Evil Bokeh
It's just the typical course of the life of a forum, and in this case, maybe Jorge just doesn't have the credibility he used to with so many new members and much less apparent participation on his part. I remember a while back there was a thing that described the life cycle of a forum, starting with small group that was very cordial, as it grew the owner had less and less time, some of the longer members begin to feel like they own the board, when new guys come and ask questions instead of answer you get "search the forum", some differences occur, people leave, things get worked out, older members start to lose interest, some of the previously newer members begin to become the older members, they begin to own the forum, repeat cycle, etc etc. This is very evident on some of the huge forums out there. RFF started getting some of this towards the end of 2005 (about the time I joined), and despite the repetitiveness, I think the topics are relatively interesting enough such that you really don't get the "search the forum" answers as much here, which is a good and nice thing 
*shrug*
*shrug*
This is a forum about RF cameras. hence delivery of news is key to the forum as well. So if there is industry information we all would like to see I am going to publish it. This is not the N.Y Times where the news has an agenda and comes before national security. This is a camera site weher the news does not affect national security and it gets people excited. For those that criticize for showing the photos, If you think it is unethicle then don't read it. Your curiosity would be just as unethical to a fair minded person.
Flyfisher Tom
Well-known
Can someone summarize what the attack was? I haven't read through the 128 responses or the multiple threads yet. What was the big complaint?
Regarding the actual photos, the M8 looks pretty sweet, I'm impressed Leica made it look the 'lineage' of the prior Ms.
Regarding the actual photos, the M8 looks pretty sweet, I'm impressed Leica made it look the 'lineage' of the prior Ms.
raid
Dad Photographer
Let's move on ....
I am sure that nothing irregular was done by anyone on purpose [if it happened].
Raid
I am sure that nothing irregular was done by anyone on purpose [if it happened].
Raid
Jocko
Off With The Pixies
I know nothing about this - but having worked in the advertising world, I do know that leaks are part of the strategy in any product launch. Sometime this is disinformation. Sometimes it is not. "Secret" prototype cars are driven up and down public roads following "anonymous" tip-offs to magazines... snatches of film appear on the internet. I would be very surprised if these pictures were "stolen" from Leitz.
All the best, Ian
All the best, Ian
JohnM
Well-known
The automobile industry goes to great lengths to disguise their new products to allow them the PR 'splash' of releasing it themselves. They add body work, make new cars look like old cars, mislead the press on specs, etc.
For their part, the automotive press goes to great lengths to reveal those same new products as soon as possible to increase their own business - spies hiding near test tracks, finagling internal photos, whatever.
In this case, RFF got a hold of some apparent pre-release photos of the M8 and used them for its own benefit. That is the way it works.
If those photos are real, it really was quite a coup - somebody was eventually gonna get 'em, it might as well have been RFF.
I don't think the 'dedicated employees' at Leica are any worse for wear as a result.
For their part, the automotive press goes to great lengths to reveal those same new products as soon as possible to increase their own business - spies hiding near test tracks, finagling internal photos, whatever.
In this case, RFF got a hold of some apparent pre-release photos of the M8 and used them for its own benefit. That is the way it works.
If those photos are real, it really was quite a coup - somebody was eventually gonna get 'em, it might as well have been RFF.
I don't think the 'dedicated employees' at Leica are any worse for wear as a result.
sherm
Well-known
Raid had the right idea... keep it moving nothing to see here we all have a tendenct to be a bit thin skinned around here Jorge is a big boy and I'm sure expects the good and the bad, that's what comes with the territory of being the "Big Cheese".
Let's not be a bunch of "old ladies"
Let's not be a bunch of "old ladies"
Finder,
the thread with the picture was viewed 11,874 before I temprarily put the locks on it. I'm sure that it was viewd on other sites just as many times if not more. Out of all the numerous posts you were the only one I saw that had issues with the ethics of showing the camera.
Releasing photos like this to the public is the nature of the game. Nobody omplained about the Canon5D pictures floating around months before its release. If a camera manufacturer does not want pictures of their gear shown to the public than they would not make any available. regardless, I am done for now. I am waiting for some additional photos of other leica digital products which will be exciting to users.
the thread with the picture was viewed 11,874 before I temprarily put the locks on it. I'm sure that it was viewd on other sites just as many times if not more. Out of all the numerous posts you were the only one I saw that had issues with the ethics of showing the camera.
Releasing photos like this to the public is the nature of the game. Nobody omplained about the Canon5D pictures floating around months before its release. If a camera manufacturer does not want pictures of their gear shown to the public than they would not make any available. regardless, I am done for now. I am waiting for some additional photos of other leica digital products which will be exciting to users.
FrankS
Registered User
In the "M8" thread which has disappeared, I suggested that the shadow of the camera in frontal view looks phoney. In my opinion, it has been digitally introduced. This (presummed) evidence of digital manipulation raises the question of the reality of the entire image. If it is a true shot, why digitally insert a shadow? In raising this point, I in no way question Jorge's intergrety. He was given this image file and he shared it with us. Period. I didn't grope the hostess, honest!
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jan normandale
Film is the other way
I think there has been crankiness elsewhere on the RFF forums lately. Don't know what is bringing it on. I haven't followed the M8 thread, because it's out of my price range.
Finder
Veteran
Jorge Torralba said:
Let me see if I understand. You got these images directly from Leica?
peterc
Heretic
Does this really matter?Finder said:
Advance photos/descriptions/specs (fictional and/or factual) of products (cars, cameras, computers etc.) circulate all the time. This is particularly the case when the product is expected to be groundbreaking.
There are those who will complain about what they see ... but generally they're the people who'd complain that the colour will be just the wrong shade on sunny afternoons in mid-August on the north side of the Panama Canal.
For the potential buyers, it gives them something to drool over, comment on, whatever.
For the manufacturer, it keeps their product in the public eye ... and if there is a feature in the leaked/faked/whatever material that gets a lot of negative response it may give them time to change it.
Peter
rvaubel
Well-known
Finder said:
Finder
The only people who have a moral and legal obligation to maintain confidentiality about the M8, are people who have signed NDA's with Leica. Everyone else can do whatever they please. I believe Jorge wants the M8 to succeed and would do nothing intentionally to harm the introdution of the camera.
Rex
JohnM
Well-known
I think the idea that Jorge would reveal where he got the photos from or who his source was is just ridiculous and unnecessary.
It's not our business.
It's not our business.
ErnestoJL
Well-known
Many years ago, Volkswagen Argentina, forgot to parktheir new car in the prototype´s garage..... instead it was parked close to the main facility gates.....
Oh.... it was just a mistake, as well as the many photogrpahers who met at the same time and at the same place after factory closing for the weekend....
Oh.... no, I´m will doubt seriously about unadverted leaks....
Trust in Jorge.
Ernesto
Oh.... it was just a mistake, as well as the many photogrpahers who met at the same time and at the same place after factory closing for the weekend....
Oh.... no, I´m will doubt seriously about unadverted leaks....
Trust in Jorge.
Ernesto
vsolanoy
Established
I agree with PeterC... does it really matter. If there's one thing I've noticed in having lurked, posted and participated -- people seem to have gotten hyper-sensitive to things. I personally think this is truly contrary to the spirit of the web, and sites just like this one.