The next PEN won't have built-in VF

Just sold my most expensive m43 lens and almost ready for the X-E1, however, I would like to have a external articulating lcd to use the camera like a rollei. I can´t see why olympus won't do a rangefinder alike camera.
 
No one saying they "require" this is saying why the flattop design is "required." It's rather disingenuous saying Oly is not giving serious photographers what they need when they are offering them the OMD and the only difference between this and what people say they need is a flat top.

jsrockit said:
I know a lot of us here require internal VFs, but I'm not so sure the average consumer wants it. I see people all the time in NYC (tourist spots) using VF cameras with the LCD instead.
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I find it a bit odd how Olympus as so reluctant to build in an EVF. Panasonic do it on what I believe is their cheapest m43 camera, and it's probably their smallest too.

Maybe they don't want to cannibalise their own OMD sales. Does seem odd though.
 
thegman said:
I find it a bit odd how Olympus as so reluctant to build in an EVF. Panasonic do it on what I believe is their cheapest m43 camera, and it's probably their smallest too.

Maybe they don't want to cannibalise their own OMD sales. Does seem odd though.
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What cheapest Panasonic m4/3 camera has a built in evf?
 
PatrickT said:
I mean, what would you want from a digital PEN with built in viewfinder that the E-M5 doesn't already give? Just a different name?
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I'd like an upgrade to my E-P2 with a built in viewfinder (maybe portrait oriented, now that would be ground-breaking, as I would expect from Olympus in their best days). Basically a true digital successor of my Pen F.

OM-D is not the same design just as the original OM and Pen are not the same design (not only on the film size). Have you handled both? do they feel and shoot the same way?

But at the end of the day, If they are equal in your eyes, please, more power to you, my friend.

But you and I are not the same person.
 
Godfrey said:
I'm quite familiar with Olympus history and have owned several Pen, Pen Fs as well as OM, E-system, IS-system, and Pen digital cameras.

Look at the photo you presented. The Pen F SLR is mostly empty space inside, room for the mirror to move, the film cartridge and film to move, etc. The Pen digital, if you ever open one up, has virtually no space to spare at all.

EVFs are not huge but they do take up some space. Using the Olympus VF-2 as a guide, they'd need another 1.5 cubic inches of interior space to put it in. Never mind the advanced IBIS system that fills most of what looks like an SLR prism hump on the E-M5. A quality optical viewfinder will not be any smaller either.

So you could build a Pen with an internal EVF or OVF, sure, but it's going to be larger than the E-P2 at the very least. Rearranging the guts of the Pen E-P2 can be done, to some degree, but the body MUST grow by some amount or you are giving up space in some other components to do it. Where exactly to put the EVF and keep the Pen F like look is a tricky business.

I had the flat-top Panasonic L1 DSLR, which had a similar sidewinder mirror optical system to the Pen F SLRs (and shared some parts with the Olympus E-330 model). Believe me, it was about double the volume of the E-P2—a much, much bigger camera. I love the shape and ergonomics, but the reflex viewfinder was perhaps its most challenged bit.

G
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Godfrey,

I am not interested to discuss the design of the camera, I'd leave that to Olympus who used to do things that others said is impossible as far as camera design is concerned. :)

I just wish they would consider to have one of their offerings to have a built-in VF. They can cater to the "statistical average" market who just love LCD-composing, all they want. I just want one that looks like their elegant Pen cameras. If they do have one, I believe I am not the only person in this world who would like it, regardless how it looks by the way this particular thread turned out.

And sorry, to me, OM-D looks like and OM, not the Pen.
 
thegman said:
I find it a bit odd how Olympus as so reluctant to build in an EVF. Panasonic do it on what I believe is their cheapest m43 camera, and it's probably their smallest too.

Maybe they don't want to cannibalise their own OMD sales. Does seem odd though.
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Thank you.
Actually, the same goes for Sony RX1.
Do people really love LCDs that much?
 
shadowfox said:
Godfrey,
I am not interested to discuss the design of the camera, I'd leave that to Olympus who used to do things that others said is impossible as far as camera design is concerned. :)

I just wish they would consider to have one of their offerings to have a built-in VF. They can cater to the "statistical average" market who just love LCD-composing, all they want. I just want one that looks like their elegant Pen cameras. If they do have one, I believe I am not the only person in this world who would like it, regardless how it looks by the way this particular thread turned out.

And sorry, to me, OM-D looks like and OM, not the Pen.
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LOL! At least they achieved that, which was their goal since they explicitly brand that line the "OM-D" ... Eh? :)

I'd buy an Olympus Pen F digital based on the design of the LC-1 as I posted above. (A little more specific than just Pen as those cameras were fixed lens viewfinder cameras, not SLRs.) A bit larger than the current Pen digitals and OM-D would be fine by me. But please keep the hotshoe and port for the external EVF as well, the tilting ocular is truly useful.

I just doubt they'll do it.

G
 
shadowfox said:
Thank you.
Actually, the same goes for Sony RX1.
Do people really love LCDs that much?
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I know some non-photographers who like the LCDs, maybe even prefer them to a finder. I think the main reasons some cameras don't have finders:

1) Keeps costs down, although many cheap superzooms and the Panasonic G3 has one and that's plenty cheap.

2) Why sell you a camera with a finder when they can sell you one without, and then sell you another with a finder next year?
 
Well, none of the different Pen cameras are "equal" either... even if they all lack an EVF.

shadowfox said:
I'd like an upgrade to my E-P2 with a built in viewfinder (maybe portrait oriented, now that would be ground-breaking, as I would expect from Olympus in their best days). Basically a true digital successor of my Pen F.

OM-D is not the same design just as the original OM and Pen are not the same design (not only on the film size). Have you handled both? do they feel and shoot the same way?

But at the end of the day, If they are equal in your eyes, please, more power to you, my friend.

But you and I are not the same person.
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Well, I am very clearly a "photographer," and I love using an LCD, especially for tripod work... way better than a squinty little VF.

If a built in EVF cost nearly nothing, there are times in the bright sun that I would use it, but really, if I only get one it better be an LCD!

thegman said:
I know some non-photographers who like the LCDs, maybe even prefer them to a finder. I think the main reasons some cameras don't have finders:

1) Keeps costs down, although many cheap superzooms and the Panasonic G3 has one and that's plenty cheap.

2) Why sell you a camera with a finder when they can sell you one without, and then sell you another with a finder next year?
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Olympus has everything on the table.

Olympus has everything on the table.

Being a frugal (cheap) sort, I consider that Olympus has everything offered to please me, including a primary price consideration.

If you look at all the models, everything is there, except perhaps the pseudo rangefinder look that does include an Optical View Finder in the body, which seems to me to be the correct terminology for what most are talking about. Unless I am mistaken, however, and the complainers really want an electronic finder in the body, and NO HUMP.

As I understand it, the HUMP houses both the prism AND the wonderful 5 Axis IBIS, which no other competition or contender is offering in-body (5 axis' of vibration reduction). Are we forgetting that, or are the people who want no HUMP willing to give up another Olympus Innovation.

I would rather that Olympus continue to give us technology advances, which happens to be where Olympus shines. Restyling a camera just to remove the HUMP and yet still plug it into the middle of the pricing range is of no interest to me. And it is likely not do-able, while at the same time reducing the price below the OM-D. I guess they could hang the 5 axis IBIS below the body as an attachment that could be pocketed when not needed.

Ideally, I would like to have the OM-D EM5, HUMP and all. But that's the retro part of me talking. That would be an ideal relationship of all the technology that Olympus offers in Micro 4/3 (and that no one else offers in it's entirety) and retro design.

My monetary fall back position is the E-PL5, and if I want the EVF, add the VF2 later. I see no problem with shooting the camera with the add-on and slipping the camera with the VF2, removed, into one pocket and the VF2 into another.

I don't care about the lack of the in-camera VF on the PENS, and I also have no illusions about Olympus putting design energy into a simple restyle of the current pen technology. Furthermore, I would be unhappy if Olympus backed away from improved technology to accomplish that task.

I don't see a problem with Olympus' direction at all, at least for my purposes.
 
I too would like to see more choice in the Pen line. Right now, if you prefer a built in viewfinder m4:3 from Olympus you are limited to one camera, one price and that price ($1000 / Body only) is too rich for me.

So, what am I left with. A VF-2 at $250 (when available) and what ever Pen I can afford. That would be a used E-PL1. Total price about $400~$450 for both camera body and VF-2.

If Olympus could build a small, flat top camera with built in VF that is as good as the VF-2 for $500, body only, then I could afford that.
 
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