Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I'm mystified by this rather strange phenomenon that goes on with my photography ... it seems that the better the gear I use the less I like my output a lot of the time.
I honestly can't remember in the time I owned my M8 that I took any photos that really grabbed me ... the D700 has much the same effect on me, everything just seems OK and undeniably it is a great camera as was the M8! It's not a film V digital situation either because my M3 and M2 along with my Ikon are pretty much in the same boat. I haven't taken a photograph with any of these incredibly good cameras for ages that has really, really pleased me!
I've just put a couple of rolls through my rather supect Kiev ll (FSU Comp) and as annoying as the camera is with it's incredibly bad ergonomics, awful viewfinder and occasional mystery light leak, the pics from these two rolls of film have given me more pleasure than anything I've taken for a long time. The framing of many of the shots is definitely not quite what I was seeing in the viewfinder a lot of the time, which is typical FSU I guess, but that seems to matter little ... I love the results, more so than anything I've shot for quite a while now.
What it is about these 'junk' cameras ... does the diversity of the design just encourage you to 'imagine' you've done better than you actually have or is there something going on here that I don't understand ... has anyone else experienced this?
I honestly can't remember in the time I owned my M8 that I took any photos that really grabbed me ... the D700 has much the same effect on me, everything just seems OK and undeniably it is a great camera as was the M8! It's not a film V digital situation either because my M3 and M2 along with my Ikon are pretty much in the same boat. I haven't taken a photograph with any of these incredibly good cameras for ages that has really, really pleased me!
I've just put a couple of rolls through my rather supect Kiev ll (FSU Comp) and as annoying as the camera is with it's incredibly bad ergonomics, awful viewfinder and occasional mystery light leak, the pics from these two rolls of film have given me more pleasure than anything I've taken for a long time. The framing of many of the shots is definitely not quite what I was seeing in the viewfinder a lot of the time, which is typical FSU I guess, but that seems to matter little ... I love the results, more so than anything I've shot for quite a while now.
What it is about these 'junk' cameras ... does the diversity of the design just encourage you to 'imagine' you've done better than you actually have or is there something going on here that I don't understand ... has anyone else experienced this?
bucks11
Established
I completely agree Keith. I've owned numerous Bessas, shot with my grandfather's old M2 and M3 for a little while and seemed to only produce pictures that made me release an 'eh'...
As soon as I picked up a 'brick' and another old C4 I discovered in the attic, the creation came to life. I think it's the shoddy construction of these 'dime a dozen' cameras that make us think our film may be doomed anyways (leaks, shutter lag, hazed rf), so we're in for a more 'interesting' shot...
As soon as I picked up a 'brick' and another old C4 I discovered in the attic, the creation came to life. I think it's the shoddy construction of these 'dime a dozen' cameras that make us think our film may be doomed anyways (leaks, shutter lag, hazed rf), so we're in for a more 'interesting' shot...
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
Sell the D700 and buy yourself a whole box of old Zorki's and Kievs. Problem solved.
paulfish4570
Veteran
it is more fun to squeeze a good shot out of questionable gear and films ... 
i made more good shots on one roll in my old tower no. 1 box camera than aything from 5-6 rolls through my yashica A ...
i made more good shots on one roll in my old tower no. 1 box camera than aything from 5-6 rolls through my yashica A ...
Thardy
Veteran
My professional opinion is that it's all in your head.
Paolo Bonello
3 from 36 on a good day.
Perhaps in the back of your mind there's a little 'seen it before' register that picks up on the images from the good cameras and somehow takes the shine off them. When you have your fling with the tarty old junker the 'seen it before' register doesn't go off, probably cause theres few people posting images from them on forums you frequent or in everyday life so you treat it like something new, and new is good right? No. It's just different. Take a hundred rolls with the junker and the images will start to seem normal just like the rest only it will have the ill feeling of using b#stard ergonomics and a cockeyed viewfinder to go with it.
But by all means have fun with that tarty old camera whle the magic lasts.
But by all means have fun with that tarty old camera whle the magic lasts.
Pfreddee
Well-known
I feel the same about my "junk cameras": FED 2, MIR, FED 1G, Kiev 4AM, Pentax Instamatic, etc. Very satisfying and fun to use.
Of course, I also love my Nikon N80 and F100...
An analogy from the music world. I play Highland bagpipes, and I've gone back to using cane drone reeds, after about 20 years of using synthetic drone reeds. The synthetics are plug-and-play, very reliable and very easy to set up. You play and forget 'em. Not so with cane. It's temperamental and unpredictable, but very satisfying when I get it right. No sense in having a bagpipe that's easy to play, God forbid!:bang::bang:
Go figure.
With best regards,
Pfreddee(Stephen)
Of course, I also love my Nikon N80 and F100...
An analogy from the music world. I play Highland bagpipes, and I've gone back to using cane drone reeds, after about 20 years of using synthetic drone reeds. The synthetics are plug-and-play, very reliable and very easy to set up. You play and forget 'em. Not so with cane. It's temperamental and unpredictable, but very satisfying when I get it right. No sense in having a bagpipe that's easy to play, God forbid!:bang::bang:
Go figure.
With best regards,
Pfreddee(Stephen)
PatrickONeill
Well-known
ever drive a clunker way too fast? like, at 10 over the limit?
you didn't die, the car didn't fall apart, the tires didn't blow, and the brakes didn't fall off. and hotdang, its great to be alive!
drive a porsche at 10 over the speed limit, and its a 'meh.'
you didn't die, the car didn't fall apart, the tires didn't blow, and the brakes didn't fall off. and hotdang, its great to be alive!
drive a porsche at 10 over the speed limit, and its a 'meh.'
Darshan
Well-known
You expect so "little" out of the junk cameras that even "average" results amuse you.
(the words in quotes are used rather loosely and to be interpreted in a subjective manner)
(the words in quotes are used rather loosely and to be interpreted in a subjective manner)
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
The D700 does a job but when you use it you do feel like you're 'drowning in honey' Pickett.
The problem doesn't lie with the cameras ... it lies with my own approach IMO and the tendency to over think the image and often loose a lot of the spontaneity that was there. For some weird reason a crap camera breaks down that scenario and I just tend to press the shutter and think less about perfect framing or focus.
Thardy
Veteran
Perhaps in the back of your mind there's a little 'seen it before' register that picks up on the images from the good cameras and somehow takes the shine off them. When you have your fling with the tarty old junker the 'seen it before' register doesn't go off, probably cause theres few people posting images from them on forums you frequent or in everyday life so you treat it like something new, and new is good right? No. It's just different. Take a hundred rolls with the junker and the images will start to seem normal just like the rest only it will have the ill feeling of using b#stard ergonomics and a cockeyed viewfinder to go with it.
But by all means have fun with that tarty old camera whle the magic lasts.
I know what you mean. Looking for something completely different and possibly special, I bought an OM, then a Canon fixed lens RF, an old Med
Format folder, and a defunct SLR kit with lenses.
I finally recognized that none of these old cameras imported any magic to my images.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Exactly ... which is where the term 'psychology' takes meaning!
But it still doesn't explain totally why I have some photos that are the most intuative (IMO) I've taken for some time.
FrankS
Registered User
I went through a time when I used a FED 2, Kiev 4am, and a bunch of thrift store P+S cameras, but eventually I dumped them. I have limited time and opportunity to do photography and I figured it was silly to be using such cameras when I have much better/capable/reliable cameras sitting on a shelf. I guess my experience is just different than yours, Keith.
In a way it is similar though, because I'd much rather use say, a screw mount Leica than a Nikon D700. That's why I don't have one, I know it would take the fun out of photography for me. I'm an amateur and process is important for me in this hobby of photography.
In a way it is similar though, because I'd much rather use say, a screw mount Leica than a Nikon D700. That's why I don't have one, I know it would take the fun out of photography for me. I'm an amateur and process is important for me in this hobby of photography.
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farlymac
PF McFarland
I can still take a crappy pic with my Zorki. Thankfully not a lot of them. There is something that drives the creativity when going back to the old gear, not wanting to make any mistakes like a noob. But I have shot an F2S and an N90s on the same day, taking photos of the same scenery, and felt just as creative with both cameras with great results. Sometimes Keith, it's just a matter of being in a rut.
PF
ps: I'll trade you my Zorki 1 for that D700 since you don't need it anymore.
PF
ps: I'll trade you my Zorki 1 for that D700 since you don't need it anymore.
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Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Which is why we're here ... because we all travel on different paths but with a common interest.
In spite of the Kiev's shortcomings it still ultimately does what any camera does and I can also now see why Brian Sweeney has a such a high opinion of the J-3! I'd never really used that lens much before because the Kiev is such a pain to shoot with.
BillBingham2
Registered User
I think you've nailed it!
The more you know the camera can do the more you think about it as you decided to push the button or not. The best tools for an artist do not make him/her think about the tool, they allow focus to be set on the moment/creativity.
Perhaps it's the fact that the D700 and M8 make it too easy to take "Good" pictures. Perhaps you know how hard it is to get great from a "Junk" and you feel better for it? It's not a bad thing but you need to Zen out dude.
Perhaps it's because you shoot a different sort of picture when you use the M8 vs your FSU? Do you shoot the stuff that has to come out on the FSU? Do you carry the D700 and a wide prime to just have fun? What about the M8 and a 25?
Challange yourself to not over think with the big guns all time.
Then again, perhaps I just need to increase my meds or get more sleep :bang::bang::bang:
B2
back alley
IMAGES
sounds like low self esteem...like you don't deserve the 'good' cameras and therefore no 'good' can come from them...
i'll send you my bill in the morning
i'll send you my bill in the morning
Vilk
Established
i don't haaaaave any junk cameraaaaaaaaaasssssssss... booooooooo-hoooooooo!
maddoc
... likes film again.
... had this happen, when I had my Leica MP(urfect) and also the pimped M4 (M3 style levers). It was more a "I-have-that-goddamn-expensive-Leica-now-take-an-awesome-photo" feeling than hey, interesting scene, "click" ... With the expensive uber-camera, expectations are simply higher than with the 'junk' cameras ...
StillKicking
Established
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Which is why we're here ... because we all travel on different paths but with a common interest.
In spite of the Kiev's shortcomings it still ultimately does what any camera does and I can also now see why Brian Sweeney has a such a high opinion of the J-3! I'd never really used that lens much before because the Kiev is such a pain to shoot with.
Maybe its because you don't expect great results from the Kiev. Mine will chew film.. leak light and then produce stunning images all in the same roll. Hopefully after it comes back from its CLA it wil be a little more reliable.
As for the J-3.. experience has taught me to not underestimate FSU lenses. Most of them are pretty good.